Lane Sniffin

@Dominic4JChrist @Anevs23 @XCkyro It’s not the exact same but nearly identical

@Dominic4JChrist @Anevs23 @XCkyro Right. Historical Protestants and Catholics have pretty similar views on this issue, despite often talking past each other

Catholics don’t read their Bibles!!!!!!!

@Dominic4JChrist @Anevs23 @XCkyro Basically, yes

@LaneSniffn @Anevs23 @XCkyro Ok so you need works with your faith or your faith isn’t real?

@Brosephos @CathApolDiscipl @XCkyro Please make a real argument, I am eager to learn your position.

@LaneSniffn @CathApolDiscipl @XCkyro You could just admit you've never studied Greek and there's no way for you to know what you're saying is accurate

@CathApolDiscipl @Brosephos @XCkyro I am certainly open to the truth and would love to hear his argument

@LaneSniffn @Brosephos @XCkyro To be charitable is to be open to the truth. If you’re going to argue about the Greek interpretation… and the person you are debating brings in a Greek scholar so there are no opinions being misinterpreted… it is not out of line that the Greek scholar ask for your credentials

@KamiNoSamurai @XCkyro Appreciate the clarity and the good-faith dialogue. Forgive the ellipses, but I’d point to Ephesians 2:8–10: ‘By grace you have been saved through faith… not a result of works… for we are created in Christ Jesus for good works.’ We’d say faith saves and that produces works.

I agree that true faith produces works. But it doesn’t do so automatically like a machine. God’s grace moves our will, but we must cooperate freely. Abraham had tremendous faith, yet he still had to decide to obey and offer Isaac. He could have disobeyed. His faith was proven genuine precisely because he did his part and acted. That’s why we believe works are necessary for salvation: not to earn the initial grace (that is a pure gift), but because a faith that does not produce works of love is not a saving faith.

@Anevs23 @XCkyro The Protestant position is actually very close to this! Unfortunately many “Protestants” don’t really know how to articulate it. We would say when declared “faith” lacks hope and love, it isn’t real faith, but is rather something intellectual rather than spiritual.

@LaneSniffn @XCkyro You’re right that faith must be living. In Catholic teaching, “faith apart from works is dead” when faith lacks hope and love, it doesn’t fully unite someone to Christ. Catholics would say living faith expresses itself in charity through good works, not just belief alone.

@CathApolDiscipl @Brosephos @XCkyro I want to be charitable, but this is low quality argumentation not worthy of a serious response. Would rather focus on the merits as we are all trying to grow closer to God and seeking truth.

@Brosephos @LaneSniffn @XCkyro No response?

@Levis_Momm @XCkyro Words don’t have only one sense. δικαιόω can mean ‘declare righteous’ or ‘show to be righteous’ depending on context. Jesus uses it that way in Luke 7:35. Paul’s Romans 4 is about being counted righteous before God. James is about that faith being shown to be real through action.

@LaneSniffn @XCkyro εδικαιωθη The exact same word is used in Romans 4:2. It means to he/she/it was justified/declared justified It take some special pleading to insist "justified" does not mean "justified."

@KamiNoSamurai @XCkyro Agreed! There’s no real contradiction between Paul and James. We’re just coming at it from different lenses. Both Protestant Christians and Catholic Christians affirm that true saving faith is never alone. It is living within us and produces good works.

The apparent contradiction disappears when we understand the Greek word “justified” (δικαιόω) has different senses: Paul (Romans 4) speaks of initial justification — Abraham was justified by faith before any works. James 2:21 speaks of demonstrative justification — Abraham’s faith was proven real when he offered Isaac. “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:17). True saving faith works by love (Gal 5:6). Paul and James complement each other perfectly.

@Anevs23 @XCkyro Faith without works is dead, but it is faith that saves, not works, mechanically speaking. Works are the evidence, not the cause. Dead faith doesn’t save- living faith does. And our fruits should reflect that, so we ought to be charitable in how we engage fellow Christians.

@LaneSniffn @XCkyro “Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?” Translate that foolish person.

@redeemed_zoomer Plus it ignores that a big reason for RC growth is immigration. About 35 million Hispanics have come to the US in the last 50 years, most of which are Catholic, while RC numbers have remained stable across generations. That implies that native Catholic #’s have actually decreased

Saying "Protestantism is shrinking" as a way to "own" Protestants is ridiculous In 2010s, Christianity overall was rapidly shrinking, atheism was rising, and the new atheists sounded EXACTLY like modern RC/EOs with their demographic chest-thumping If a shrinking group isn't worth being in, then Christianity in 2010 was not worth being in