Saepe Reformanda

Reformed paedobaptists spill much ink explaining away credobaptism, yet ALL their adult converts receive strict credobaptism. They carve out a special exception for infants, whereas under the OC both infants and adults received circumcision on grounds of descent from Abraham. 1/5

@BeardedPresby @5Solas2 Agreed, but context of this discussion if you scroll up is 1689 confessional Baptists.

@SaepeReformanda @5Solas2 My problem with baptist polity is, most baptist churches i know are not elder led, and are completely independent. They have no accountability between other like churches. And the whole pastor led church thing is a nightmare.

@5Solas2 I've noticed that some of the leadership of John MacArthur's church have started labeling themselves as Reformed, which is eyebrow raising. I guess there have been some dispensational Presbyterians? Kind of boring to argue about labels. I'd rather debate ideas.

@BeardedPresby @5Solas2 If you don't like 1689 church polity, you are excluding Owen along with a respectable Congregational minority of the Westminster assembly from the "Reformed" label.

@5Solas2 No. No baptist is covenantal. Being reformed is more than just being a calvinist. Also, your church polity is terrible.

@PresbyInn As a Baptist, as an American, and as a New Covenant Christian, I say with Thomas Jefferson: "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." In particular: killing over religious beliefs is murder.

@PresbyInn So you believe the teaching doctrines contrary to trinitarian orthodoxy is justly deemed a capital offense under natural law?

"mommy, tell me some bedtime stories that will help me fall asleep." "Sure, sweetie: Calvin's a monster that executed Servetus Zwingli was a rank heretic who didn't believe in supernatural anything Luther was a drunk mentally-ill foulmouth who didn't reform enough and was a crypto-papist Anglicans are bc Henry VIII wanted a divorce And everything you'll ever read by 20th century scholars about the past is 100% true." "Thanks, mommy, that was good *yawn*, night night. "

@dmullz_117 @RyanHurst171 The pre-Reformation church's views on baptism were for the most part incompatible with both of our respective views. Cheers, brother.

@SaepeReformanda @RyanHurst171 Tertullian isn’t a Baptist, please don’t follow this line of argumentation.

Are you really reformed if you don't baptize your babies? 🤔

@dmullz_117 @RyanHurst171 Why does Tertullian seem entirely unaware of the thought process of Ursinus in your meme quote?

@SaepeReformanda @RyanHurst171 Tertullian doesn’t help the Baptist case. He certainly doesn’t outweigh the majority that affirmed it. youtu.be/cLN4cwoSJvQ?si…

@PresbyInn Is there anything in your process of logic that would give a different answer for the death of William Tyndale?

@SaepeReformanda No

@jonathanramont Thanks - others have answered that question in the negative, which always confused me, given e.g. Jesus used the 6C to teach against hatred. The way the decalogue is setup and used by Jesus + apostles seems to be narrow exemplars, to be applied & meditated on broadly.

@SaepeReformanda Yes, though as a general rule churches should observe the apostolic custom (which has the force of law for us) of observing the Lord's day. If there were circumstances requiring that we meet a different day it would fulfill the obligation.

The precept underlying the 4th commandment is creational, perpetual, etc. The particular day and injunctions are a matter of positive law, which are mutable. The precept has to do with dedicating ourselves to worship (thus also setting aside our worldly activities).

@dmullz_117 @RyanHurst171 Yes, Infant baptism became a universal practice very early in church history. Your chart is strangely missing Tertullian, the oldest extant reference to paedobaptism. I wonder why?

@SaepeReformanda @RyanHurst171 I’ll stick with the Reformers and church history, thanks.

@JeffTaylorLR The term "moral law" is squishy. All law that is binding on me is moral for me. Many Reformed are unaware that their standards teach that a "positive moral" 7th day was abrogated and swapped for a 1st day. The term "natural law" avoids such potentially misleading shenanigans.

The elephant isn’t just in the room — it’s sitting on the coffee table, drinking your pastor’s coffee, and he’s politely pretending not to see it. The unspoken reality in the Sabbath debate is simple: A sign tied to land‑sanctions, old‑creation order, and typological fulfillment cannot be moral law. Moral law is creation‑universal, perpetual, non‑typological, and never expires. The Sabbath, by everyone’s own categories, is none of those things. Once you grant that the Sabbath was a covenantal sign whose sanctions and telos were bound to Israel’s land‑administration — and that Christ has fulfilled that entire order — you’ve already conceded the point: The Sabbath isn’t moral law. It was a covenantal sign whose function has reached its eschatological completion. The only reason this isn’t said out loud is because the architecture is clearer than the tradition is comfortable with. But the structure is what it is. #CovenantalArchitecture #KlineanTheology #BiblicalTheology #Eschatology #OldCreation #NewCreation #Typology #SabbathDebate #ReformedTheology #LandSanctions #TelosInChrist

Yet faith was NEVER the prescribed grounds of circumcision for males in Israel. Yet it is very clearly prescribed as grounds for Xtian baptism of adults. That is a HUGE DISCONNECT. Transcovenantal positive law is a clear theological error and invalid within covenant theology. 5/5

If neglected in infancy, circumcision could be applied to an unbelieving adult BEFORE such a one professed any personal faith. And such circumcision would be obedience to the law. Of course the rest of the law was also obligatory. Faith also was prescriptively obligatory. 4/5

Calvin admitted there are different rules for adults versus children as baptismal candidates, pointing out that we don't enforce the "if you don't work, you don't eat" principle for infants. 1/5

@dmullz_117 @DanielRHyde Wait a second, 1 Cor 7:14 also says an unbelieving spouse is made holy. Yet no Christian church will baptize an adult just because he or she is member of a household. Circumcision had the same grounds for infants and adults, unlike baptism.

@DanielRHyde I love simple little charts like this!

Baptize Babies? 🧐 Here’s why… [Spoiler: “Jesus loves the little children…] Video linked below 👇🏼 #InfantBaptism #CovenantTheology