@StataraHQ @Fullcourtpass @joevardon @APH00PS All laying out objective standards does is show team how and where to toe the line.
English
Sam
3.9K posts
@StataraHQ @Fullcourtpass @joevardon @APH00PS Do it punitively once or twice and you won’t have a problem again. It shouldn’t be impossible to get 30 teams to operate in good faith
English
If a team, under the new rules, was still found by Adam Silver’s office to be tanking, he would be able to take away that team’s draft pick, move it to the end of the lottery or first round and also increase fines into the millions of dollars, per @joevardon
(h/t @APH00PS)
English
English
@Fullcourtpass @joevardon @APH00PS There is no actual tangible metric that proves tanking is taking place. Effort can’t be quantified. This is so unenforceable.
English
@TheFLReaper @Fullcourtpass @joevardon @APH00PS Doesn’t matter so long as it’s not my team! Kings are shaking in their boots lol
English
@Fullcourtpass @joevardon @APH00PS Thank god everyone has full trust in the nba to not abuse these types of powers.
English
@haralabob What’s your preferred solution Bob? Or are you in the ‘this is only an issue when the draft is really good’ camp who doesn’t want to do much
English
@richard_normal Nets would be bad sure, but they have stretches of respectability. Jazz could be in the play-in if they wanted imo
English
@ShadeNym the nets flat stink and are playing the thousands of rookies they just drafted. thats why theyre bad. the jazz are also just a bad team, but are indeed tanking, i wont deny that, and theyre doing it specifically because they didnt get high draft picks last season.
English
@thepahomie @MavsStan41 Yeah I think Luka’s better than Embiid was, except maybe the year after he won MVP when his scoring went to the stratosphere, bc of the playmaking. But I agree with the defense stuff. That’s not what I was referring to tho lol
English
@ShadeNym @MavsStan41 Wemby is higher cause he had the defense to match and even tho Wemby is not at Embiid’s level offensively the year he won the MVP.
English
I don’t think he’ll ever get one of those because the media generally doesn’t like him. And now with Wemby entering the picture, I think he’ll need to have a damn near perfect season to get one. (1st seed, historic numbers, career high efficiency)
Bibs@BibsCorner
Luka nation is very doom and gloom about this MVP thing. Yall don’t think he can get the “Here then, damn” MVP this year like Embiid got?
English
@IsaacLHarris To stop it? Definitely. To stop it without causing a bigger issue? Ehhhhhh
English
so much talk about tanking, but does anyone have a solution to stop it?
English
@hoopgod32 I think he’ll fine as a 3&D guard, but that player type isn’t worth much
English
@hallsrh @_utilitysports And PG probably doesn’t want to go there if they don’t have Russ!
English
@_utilitysports The Thunder also had Oladipo who was a top 2 pick and allowed for the PG to SGA trade. The Thunder absolutely built their roster using top 5 picks even if indirectly.
English
OKC has one top 5 pick on their roster
The have destroyed other teams by making good decisions in free agency, the 2nd round, trades and non-top 10 picks
They are the epitome of “hey, maybe the lottery isn’t the only way to build a winning team”
Sam Quinn@SamQuinnCBS
One of the unintended consequences of lottery reform is that I imagine it will entrench the Thunder and Spurs at the top. I’m not sure how teams post-reform are going to have any hope of assembling all of the young talent they were able to in order to really oppose them.
English
@richard_normal Idk how you look at how the Nets and Jazz play when they’re actually trying and think this. If you have a really good coach, you can be respectable. The league is deep with talent, but teams gut themselves for better odds.
English
Also, the worse team would likely not be that bad if the current system were in place. If you don’t benefit from getting better odds, it’s never worth it to bottom out in the first place. Even now, teams like the Jazz could definitely fight for the playin if Lauri, JJJ, and Keyonte George were all playing. So the standings aren’t representative of their true strength, because of tanking.
English
@ShadeNym @DeanO_Lytics The problem is why does the 10th worst team (30+ wins) have the same odds as a team with 18 wins. I mean these are demonstrably different teams.
10th team could be down their star while the 18 win team has nobody.
English
Need to think through these, but I don't love them.
My question: How would any of these change behavior of this year's tanking teams? Utah, Indiana, SAC, etc.
Shams Charania@ShamsCharania
The NBA presented three comprehensive anti-tanking concepts to its Board of Governors on Wednesday, with modifications expected to each before a formal vote in May, per ESPN sources. 1. 18 teams in draft lottery (seeds 7-15 in each conference) – flattened odds, with bottom 10 teams having an 8% chance, the remaining 20% odds distributed in decreasing order for 11 through 18, and and a lottery drawing for all 18 picks. 2) 22 teams in lottery using 2-year record (seeds 7-15, plus the four playoff first round exits in both conferences). Lottery teams would reach a minimum win total floor in each season, such as 25 wins. If a team falls short of the floor, it gets slotted to meet the floor. Top 4 drawn as part of lottery, as is currently. 3) 18 teams in a "5 by 5" lottery – bottom 5 teams have equal odds for the top pick, with lottery formed for picks 1-5. Bottom 5 teams have a floor at 10; those that fall out of top 5 get sorted in a separate drawing.
English
Yes that’s the core of the problem, if you give that worse team better odds, you incentivize tanking. If you make the odds the same, then potentially better teams get better picks.
The thought is that they’d just rather have nobody tanking while ensuring only non-playoff teams get good draft picks.
English
@ShadeNym I think a reverse record order draft actually cures tanking more. But I’m willing to listen to a reverse record order draft for the top 3 by x date or something.
English
It shouldn’t - but it genuinely surprises me how the NBA has a fundamental misunderstanding of this issue.
Stop trying to fight a negative (No tanking) and start trying to create a positive (how do we make all teams competitive - ie NFL)
You arrive at a wildly different solution
Underdog NBA@UnderdogNBA
Shams: NBA presented 3 anti-tanking concepts to Board of Governors. 1. 18 teams in draft lottery with flattened odds and lottery for picks 1-18 (bottom 10 teams all have 8% chance at top pick) 2. 22 teams in draft lottery with 2-year cumulative record used and minimum win total needed 3. 18 teams in draft lottery with bottom 5 all having equal odds for the top pick, lottery for picks 1-5, and bottom 5 teams having a floor of pick 10 Concepts will be tweaked and voted upon in May.
English
@nicko_schofield @sidsinger @ShamsCharania Over the past 5 years, 28 different teams have made playoffs, and the two that haven’t, Spurs and Hornets, will probably both make it this year. 8 different champs in 8 years. What do you want? Lol
English
The NBA presented three comprehensive anti-tanking concepts to its Board of Governors on Wednesday, with modifications expected to each before a formal vote in May, per ESPN sources.
1. 18 teams in draft lottery (seeds 7-15 in each conference) – flattened odds, with bottom 10 teams having an 8% chance, the remaining 20% odds distributed in decreasing order for 11 through 18, and and a lottery drawing for all 18 picks.
2) 22 teams in lottery using 2-year record (seeds 7-15, plus the four playoff first round exits in both conferences). Lottery teams would reach a minimum win total floor in each season, such as 25 wins. If a team falls short of the floor, it gets slotted to meet the floor. Top 4 drawn as part of lottery, as is currently.
3) 18 teams in a "5 by 5" lottery – bottom 5 teams have equal odds for the top pick, with lottery formed for picks 1-5. Bottom 5 teams have a floor at 10; those that fall out of top 5 get sorted in a separate drawing.
English
@KevinGraySports Probably got something in return. Also doesn’t affect the majority of the players
English
Why did the NBAPA agree to 65-game
rule during CBA negotiations in the first place!?!
Fullcourtpass@Fullcourtpass
Despite the heavy backlash, the NBA’s 65-game rule is NOT changing this summer — or anytime soon, per @TimBontemps (h/t @Sleeper_Hoops)
English
@Cavsanada Solution 1 absolutely changes the incentives in exactly the ways they’re looking for. But it also nukes teams that are terrible
English
None of these solutions change the incentives. It just makes it harder for the worst teams to get top talents so we can continue to pretend their exclusively bad by choice and just not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
English