@NiaFrome I would add that "purpose it serves is limited by 'The Purpose Of a System Is What It Does"
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Tobin Anderson
38 posts
Tobin Anderson
@TobinMarxist
Marxist & Communist | Our task today in the West is at the level of theory and strategy. Imperialism won't fall with utopianism. | he/him
The Netherlands Katılım Ekim 2022
26 Takip Edilen10 Takipçiler
@NiaFrome Damn I was just having a discussion about definitions of socialism, imperialism, etc wrt China with comrades and needed this tweet 3 hours ago. Perfect distillation of the problem I was highlighting. Can I take it to put in my internal critique piece?
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positive statements require the use of categories; categories require definitions; definitions are either arbitrary or justified; arbitrary definitions are irresponsible, not innocent; justifying (hence optimizing) a definition requires reference to a purpose it serves
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@israeliens1 @JosephARaines @RodericDay 🥱 useless combination of orthodox and right-deviationist tendencies. I'm done with you and your shit-spewing
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@TobinMarxist @JosephARaines @RodericDay Gerald Horne has no analysis, and no capitalism & fascism have developed with regard to imperialism which is a 'highest' phase before the transition to socialism
'settler-colonialism' is not a framing for the present day... and Losurdo is also not a Marxist
Why seek falsity?
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If this child could actually process the contents of Lenin's "What Is To Be Done?"—a document *literally* answering the question of what are the immediate tasks at hand for would-be revolutionaries in a decaying regime—he'd probably hurl and cry and drop the hammer and sickle.
Darrell ☭🔻📕@mmementomoriDG
“Ideological debates” on Twitter is a most useless endeavor. You’re simply arguing with other leftists who aren’t going to have their mind changed. The majority of the working class is not on Twitter. This is not a constructive tool for furthering the goal of communism.
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@israeliens1 @JosephARaines @RodericDay Is this what ACP passes off as analyses? Marxism is only purely about capitalism and DotP? Loser shit, honestly. Settler-colonialism, capitalism, and fascism are co-constituant and that is crucial to building a successful movement. Read Losurdo
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@TobinMarxist @JosephARaines @RodericDay Gerald Horne is a liberal academic, not a Marxist and he has nothing to do with Marxism or Communism & he has no 'analysis' relevant to scientific socialist or to building DotP in America
'settler-colonialism' is not Marxism, it's a framing regarding the transition to capitalism
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@israeliens1 @JosephARaines @RodericDay Gerald Horne is a historian. I don't think he's written anything on current strategies for socialism. His analyses are entirely useful to marxists regardless of that. He does an analysis of settler-colonialism starting from the land question. I don't think you've read him
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@TobinMarxist @JosephARaines @RodericDay But Gerald Horne isn't 'assessing the land question' and ACP supports self-determination& land for oppressed nations in America
Where does Gerald Horne say he supports DotP in America? If he doesn't, he's not a Marxist
Marxism isn't when you call events in history 'really bad'
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@israeliens1 @JosephARaines @RodericDay Ah ok you're an ACP-type person. Assessing the land question is marxist. His analyses of the American counter-revolutions are based in historical materialism. He describes the horrific regime in ethical terms, so did Marx. It's still based in a dialectical-materialist analysis.
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@TobinMarxist @JosephARaines @RodericDay What has Gerald Horne ever said/done that shows he's a Marxist?
I don't recall reading anywhere in Gerald Horne's works anything showing he's a historical materialist, apparently his 'analysis' is hardly different from '1619 Project' liberalism. It's the same moralistic posture
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@israeliens1 @JosephARaines @RodericDay What makes you say that? He's a marxist with analyses of settler-colonialism of the US and of black American radical movements. His works are historical-materialist. Do you have some description of what would make him liberal?
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@JosephARaines @RodericDay Gerald Horne is a typical liberal, isn't he?
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@RodericDay I am reminded of some who lament specialized consultancy as a system, meanwhile I think "some are developed to be skilled and quick at something useful across society, that's super deep socialization." It just lacks the comradely feel of a union man in a factory his whole life.
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"Oh but everyone now hates and is disgusted by the status quo, who wants to hear there will be any continuity with it?"
To me this sounds like giving up on Earth to pitch Heaven.
I think Marxists should distinguish themselves from other progressives with hardheaded science.
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Back when "leftist" included Obama liberals, it was OK to call "Marxist" people who argued workers weren't inferior and that American imperialism was bad.
In 2026, with "multipolarity" and naked American barbarism, I'd expect a higher baseline/minimum.
I propose 2 key points.
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@maxajl Very good thread. Speaking of "capacity" in this way sometimes reeks of capitalist ideology, but analyzing it more generally as human relations requiring resources which must be organized gives an unassailable way to have that conversation. Will keep that in my pocket.
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@fightpantz @BlackVelvvett @bidetmarxman I said higher levels in businesses, meaning practical application. Such skills are made concrete in practice with decision making with responsibility. This is limited by capital to those it rewards. Thats a structurally small overlap with leftist movements.
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@TobinMarxist @BlackVelvvett @bidetmarxman You cannot be serious. You think business school is where people learn to organize effective resistance to class oppression? You think these are the skills of capitalist or neocolonial elites?
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It’s broader than that.
A big challenge communists face is that the traits needed to build an effective organization—discipline, initiative, social skill, strategic thinking, strong memory etc—are often the same traits that are rewarded with success in the capitalist system.
Yves St. Nihil 🏭📕@NihilNothings
It's unfortunate that Marxism found appeal with the theatre kids first rather than the STEM kids who'd have the necessary skillset in advancing the productive forces for the transition towards socialism and the endgame of communism.
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@fightpantz @BlackVelvvett @bidetmarxman These are not the skills referenced, though. We have many with those skills. That's great. But skills like 'prioritizing tactics to fulfill strategic goals' is something mostly only taught at higher levels in business. We need them too but are structurally limited from them
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@BlackVelvvett @bidetmarxman The “poverty” I know have more skills in building, gardening, farming, mechanics, electronics, self-leadership (you said personal) and much more than you and talcum-ass probably.
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@IndianaModerate @RodericDay Definitive final reply from me: you've only gone deeper in the nesting doll. You want capitalism to be a ranking and nothing analytically defined in stark contradiction with the need to concretely define it to understand it systematically. There's nothing left to discuss about it
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@TobinMarxist @RodericDay ?? The methodologies quantify economic freedom by property rights and trade freedom and ranks them. If that's not defining and ranking capitalism, what economic system is it defining and ranking?
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Terms should be ironed out before jumping into a long discussion.
You can't really have an interesting argument about capitalism with a persons who's definition of capitalism is "freedom" or "inequality."
Capitalism is when capital, through capitalists, rules all of society.
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@IndianaModerate @RodericDay Ignoring everything bad in methodolgy, this still does nothing to define Capitalism as you initially claimed, unless you define Capitalism as "more capitalist the higher on the list you are" and export all thinking to these groups. Then it's still useless to talk to you.
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@TobinMarxist @RodericDay Here are 3 widely cited economic indexes using reproducible scientific methodology to compare economies. If you have some other source that uses a methodology you think is better, by all means, share.
worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankin…
or
economicfreedom.heritage.org
or
fraserinstitute.org/categories/eco…
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@IndianaModerate @RodericDay No you didn't. You just threw these terms out there with no possible way to grasp them except by accepting a huge set of ideological assumptions that you have accepted from liberalism. I'm done replying unless you say something worth reading.
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@TobinMarxist @RodericDay You're projecting. I'm using economic indexes that quantify property rights, free trade, and personal freedom to make claims that can be supported by facts.
You are not.
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@IndianaModerate @RodericDay 🥱
Your thinly veiled normative and ideological assumptions are boring and useless. "Free" "freedom" "voluntary". It's like you created a nesting doll definition that gets more vague the deeper you look.
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@RodericDay Agree.
Disagree. Capitalism is synonymous with free markets, economic freedom, property ownership and voluntary exchange.
Economies with the strongest property rights and most free trade also have the most personal freedom. What term do you want to use for those economies?
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@RodericDay This is a huge problem in Marxist groups in the west. Take a 1 line definition from The German Ideology -> define CPC policy today with limited discussion of goals, conditions, strategies then vs now. Losurdo's holistic approach is sorely needed. But, that requires intense study.
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Quoting a textbook definition like it's scripture ("When workers own the means…") does not actually allow you to check off this requirement.
You need to have a *working* definition that all involved parties support, flexibly.
It's *after* that that interesting arguments begin.
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@sukeetee @bidetmarxman You are confusing things. Bidet wasn't "coming down their throats" just critiquing that we should strive for better than falling into that sort of miscommunication. Twitter is a public forum like any other, being a Marxist means your Marxist account must strive to be better
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@TobinMarxist @bidetmarxman Madeline never signed up to be an educator first of all! Also, the ‘haven’t read marx enough’ crowd had no problem shouting down Madeline and calling them a liar and a fraud! Why should they take the L because ill-read people didn’t understand their point and then jumped them?
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I think Madeline knows what commodity fetishism is.
But if you present yourself as someone who teaches basic Marxist concepts and flippantly post about a famously misunderstood idea in a way that reinforces the most common misunderstanding, you should take the L
Madeline Pendleton@JeanGreige
They’ve got me out here pulling up Marxists.org to talk about jackets and qualitative value of labor as a sales pitch by capitalists because they’re circle jerking about how they could not have possibly missed the reference so in fact I must be stupid smh
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@sukeetee @bidetmarxman I understand the original intention fine. I know there are many that look to Madeline as an educator. Its not ungenerous: it's the most obvious conclusion for those which haven't read Marx enough about it. They will erroneously understand it as supporting the wrong conclusion.
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@TobinMarxist @bidetmarxman …people just foam at the mouth to catch them in an error, that they take the most ungenerous interpretation of something they say! It’s not on madeline to handfeed you their point (which they ended up doing anyway because people were being beasts to them about it)
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@sukeetee @bidetmarxman Good communication requires avoiding misunderstandings. Being any sort of influential person results in extra resoonsibikity, including to communicate well. Clarification needed means it was not good enough. We just need to expect and push for more, even from good people
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@bidetmarxman Why should they take the L because some people didn’t bother to ask for clarification/read their followup tweets and jumped straight to calling them a fraud and/or an idiot?
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Tobin Anderson retweetledi
Conservation or genocide? A new video is premiering tonight at 19:00! Give it a like and a share and tune in for the premier
youtu.be/d-9I69WZrU0?si…
YouTube
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