Jordan Taylor 🏴🕊️✝️

Our latest episode covering ancient knowledge, divine revelation, and of course a little bit of the book of Enoch!!! @skylerswaim #paranormal #uap #ufo #disclosure open.spotify.com/episode/7yyGxP…

@RuslanKD I know. Im probably being somewhat pedantic. But I always kind of liked iconography, but could never get on board with how far they take it where it does border on idolatry. Suffice it to say its never been an issue I get super animated about.

Totally. Thats what David Wood’s response was saying. In EO, almost everything is dogma. Icons, intercession of saints, needing to confess your sins before a priest. None of those things in and of themselves are sending someone to hell from the Protestant paradigm. It’s that they are all dogmas that if not affirmed position someone in danger of hell.

Disagree, I don't think this is a big sticking point for most protestants. Though I don't agree with how orthos and caths define iconography or veneration, its more like a quirk to me than a major theological error. I think EO has far bigger problems than iconography.

@RuslanKD Sure. My major objection would be the dogmatizing of icons, not the icons themselves. Personally im far more concerned with the marian doctrines, the rules about unleavened bread, the other non dogmatic superstitious stuff like Toll Houses.

Yeah I’m not tracking. I think Protestant can see the act as permissible. Maybe even from antiquity. The sticking point comes up when we Actually discover it’s a dogma (non negotiable) that isn’t in scripture or the ante nicene fathers. And that whoever doesn’t venerate icons is anathematized. Fair?

@TheCriticalThi5 Oh yeah, you're one of those orthobros that keeps telling Christians to *checks notes* stop reading....

@WayPeaceful “I think….”. That’s the problem. You’re the Pope. Self-elevation above all the Saints and Fathers that came before. Above history. It’s so arrogant. And no self-awareness to see how much your interpretation of Scripture is informed by the tradition you received

Look, Girls Gone Bible is just not my thing, I even find them a little bit cringe. But how the hell are they a "play on pornography culture"?!?! Like because they're pretty? I dont get it.

@rock_breakin Im way more concerned about marian dogmas than iconography tbh.

@WayPeaceful No, I see it as a major theological error, it definitely isn't a quirk.

@MagaKnuckless Thats fine. Definitely not mine.

@WayPeaceful I agree with David that is my main struggle with EO

@RuslanKD Yes I do understand dogmas. But you're misunderstanding what I said. I said it was not a major sticking point for protestants, not EO.

@WayPeaceful You understand what a dogma is right? You understand you can’t reject dogmas in their framework right?

@Acts17David But isnt that a sticking point for EO? Not protestants?

@WayPeaceful Really? They say you're not part of the church, and that you're cut off from the Body of Christ, if you don't venerate the icons. That's a pretty extreme position.

Slop

@UnseenPathways @calvinrobinson Lol, no.

@WayPeaceful @calvinrobinson So basically all of these were agreed upon by all the apostolic churches. Which comes back to my earlier point, Christian truth was lost almost immediately after Christ ascended until the Reformation? Is that your stance?

Scripture vs Tradition is a false dichotomy from a lack of understanding of both. The Sacred Scriptures are a part of Sacred Tradition. Fr Josiah Trenham gives a pastoral correction to a couple of Protestants, in his customary wholesome fashion.

@UnseenPathways @calvinrobinson To lay out all of my objections to EO would take far too long on here and honestly im not typing it out. But im sure you can guess the big ones. Ecclesial authority, marian dogmas, Justification, baptism, many of the other tertiary non dogmatic teachings. So on and so forth.

@WayPeaceful @calvinrobinson So if I was a Christian in 900 AD, where should I have gone? I’ve asked repeatedly for how you determine what is right and wrong and you keep avoiding it. It’s odd tbh. But I won’t beat a dead horse and ask again. You can continue stating Orthodoxy is wrong w/o explaining it.

@UnseenPathways @calvinrobinson 1. Im happy your a christian in spite of EO, not because of it 2. Only God determines who has eternal life 3. No and I never said that. 4. Most of those are errors even they were practiced for 1 million years. Theres no statute of limitations on being wrong.

@WayPeaceful @calvinrobinson So if it’s flat out wrong, why are you happy I’m in EO? If it’s flat out wrong, that means I’m headed to hell…? So no one protected the faith from error until the 1500s? Everyone before was praying for the dead, venerating Mary/saints, having iconography, etc.

@UnseenPathways @calvinrobinson Its not that I find it off putting. I dont base my conclusions on vibes. I think its just flat out wrong and does the opposite of protecting the faith from error.

@WayPeaceful @calvinrobinson I hear you. Some EO say it’s the last house on the block, and that’s been true for me. The first time Christianity made sense in my life. I know it seems odd and off-putting on the outside to you. But the exclusivity is to protect the faith from error, which I greatly admire.

@UnseenPathways @calvinrobinson I am glad you did not reject Christianity altogether. If EO is the vehicle some people find Christ in, than that is preferable to rejecting Christ altogether.

@WayPeaceful @calvinrobinson Thanks for answering my question. Obviously I can’t address these points with a character limit. But I came to the opposite conclusion. I will say a visible Christ has a visible body, which was promised to be led into all truth. I see that in Orthodoxy. But I know you disagree.

@UnseenPathways @calvinrobinson I have never written off the ancient churches, they all have something to offer. (But EO actually has written off every ancient church but their own) I simply reject their claims to authority. Because they are indefensible ahistorical positions.

@WayPeaceful @calvinrobinson Lol bro? I’m just asking how you determine what is true and false? I respect people’s process. I just don’t get how you can write off all the ancient churches and act like Christianity started less than 500 years ago. It doesn’t make logical sense to me tbh

@UnseenPathways @calvinrobinson I know what your doing, the typical ortho appeal to authority. If you need someone to tell you what is true and what is false and your completely incapable of using reason and evidence, you're not in a church, you're in a cult. I wont do the ortho-gaslighting routine with you.

@WayPeaceful @calvinrobinson Okay but how do you prove what is true and false? That’s what I’m getting at. How do you know the Orthodox are lying about a topic? Your own reasoning? Your reading of Scripture? Your experience?

@Methodios007 By whos authority do you interpret these books?

I have a paper edition of the first collection. You really can't stay Protestant after reading them.

@UnseenPathways @calvinrobinson Falsity is a binary, there are no "metrics". Its either true or its false. EO, Catholics, coptics etc, make false claims about numerous topics. I am not obligated to believe lies because of an arbitrary appeal to authority.

@WayPeaceful @calvinrobinson False according to what metric? Historically? Scripturally? Some other metric?

@UnseenPathways @calvinrobinson No its not about their interpretation of scripture. Its about the false claims they make.

@WayPeaceful @calvinrobinson So none of them agree with your interpretation of Scripture? And the whole of apostolic churches couldn’t preserve the faith of Christ and the apostles? It was lost?