amanda wa

@dulcettotones can you do south park? i got stuck on kenny

my new favorite game right now is sorting my favorite characters into blue button/red button choices these are the fandoms i'm currently in if u want to discuss: #southpark #naruto #atla im also really into dcu/batfamily but i couldn't find a good tag for it

@MiamiPDScanner @HeyZeusMasterB @_USAtlas @Timcast well that's a new scenario: it depends on how my vote it weighted but my red vote would still kill half the population. my blue vote still kills all blue if it's a tie. or a tie could now mean both red and blue dies or maybe just red dies bc we are not given the info for that

@avakunas @HeyZeusMasterB @_USAtlas @Timcast What if you were 100% sure that blues would only reach 49%?

There is a blue and red button placed in front of everyone It at least 50% press the blue button everyone lives and has to support Israel If more than 50% press the red button everyone who pressed the blue button dies and you still have to support Israel

@BootTheScoot oh that's not what i'm arguing. i'm saying i'll never know if a friend, family member or loved one voted red

@avakunas the problem is not that you know which person voted which way it’s that you only know how people will vote because of the poll results and can see it changing before final count. the first vote being public like in all these polls would change everything, that’s not the prompt

the logic for most of blue button pressers relies on rewriting the scenario too. everyone has seen the polls and can see them while they are happening. of course you’d vote blue if saw the tally shifting toward blue, but if it was shifting red you’d vote red…

@wachig_wiwossa @KabaneriTV @kaileyinCA yeah like pressing a hypothetical red button that has the power to kill a percentage of the worlds population i know

@avakunas @KabaneriTV @kaileyinCA people online say extreme things but rarely actually mean them. I think in a lot of ways the internet has become a place for people to say and do things they would IRL as like a kind of stress relief so I wouldn’t take it too seriously

i don’t understand why anybody would choose the red button. asking genuinely, if you chose it - why? if 50%+ choose blue, everyone lives. if less than 50% choose red, only those who chose red live. why are you willing to sacrifice half of those people?

@BootTheScoot thats the gist of it. blue voters will never know who voted blue, red will know who voted blue and who voted red based on the results bc there's always going to be people who picked blue

@avakunas Yes but I don’t speak for all reds, only myself. Assume the first person votes red on this prompt, and everyone can see it. In the case of twitter polls, you see it after you vote. In the prompt I would assume it would have to reveal the results only once all votes are cast.

@HeyZeusMasterB @_USAtlas @MiamiPDScanner @Timcast yup blue voters will never know who voted red. red will know who voted blue and who voted red once all the votes are tallied

@avakunas @_USAtlas @MiamiPDScanner @Timcast Imagine if 40%-49% of the population died. What will the red button people do.. some will laugh, most won't and they would feel guilty that so many died for them thinking themselves as logical

@SmugCube didnt the usa accidently bomb a school house tho?

@AccountPro1723 @GillieAmanita oh ive also had red say if their kids picks blue, they'd rather they die then live on an earth where they're kid's orphaned and might get adopted by a red pusher. that's a head scratcher for me

@GillieAmanita Best good faith summation I've seen

I'm a blue-presser HOWEVER I talked to a red-presser and it's not necessarily a selfish or antisocial choice. In that red's mind, blue is guaranteed to lose, because when your life is on the line, they believe more people will press red than was represented in an online poll. 1/

@verydrearydays can we put our favorite characters in the blue and red button scenario?

i don't care if you click the red or blue button can we talk about something else like cute anime girls or fluffy cats or something

@wachig_wiwossa @KabaneriTV @kaileyinCA yeah it gets morbid when kids are added to the equation. parents on here are saying they'd let their kid die bc they its better with them dead then encountering another red button pusher

I think that’s fair at the level of a family unit because the trust dynamics are totally different. Parents have a direct duty to the child, and a family of three is small enough that coordinated sacrifice/risk is actually plausible. So yes, my own choice would be different under different conditions too. In a family, choosing blue can be protective in a pragmatic way. In a global private vote, choosing blue is closer to gambling your life on billions of strangers making the same moral calculation. That seems very unlikely to me. Millions of children die each year from causes linked to malnutrition, and only a tiny fraction of humanity meaningfully organizes their lives around preventing it. That’s revealed preference. People already show us, every day, how much stranger-death weighs against their own survival and comfort. Are people who mostly allow that to continue worth sacrificing your life for on the assumption that they’d sacrifice theirs for you? I don’t think so. And I don’t expect they’d think so either. I’m curious about something though. I’ve discussed and debated this with dozens of people over the past two days but you’re the only one I’ve gone back and forth with to this extent. Is everything alright with you? It’s just unusual especially because I have a lowkey kind of unnecessarily combative style most times.

@HeyZeusMasterB @_USAtlas @MiamiPDScanner @Timcast i'd never get mad at the kid for choosing red. but i would get mad at the parents for whining about choosing red (2/2)

@_USAtlas @MiamiPDScanner @Timcast this is excalty how i look at when it comes to the women in my life - my son would probably push the red button, my wife, daughter, nieces and sisters, would probably push the blue button - now me considering this, would i risk my family listed to save myself?

@HeyZeusMasterB @_USAtlas @MiamiPDScanner @Timcast i love this dystopian shit. new scenario, imagine if voting was narrowed down to families of three: mom and dad pick red, kid picks blue, kid 💀. mom and dad pick blue, kids picks red, everybody lives. i'd never get mad at the kid for choosing red (1/2)

@chesnaughtfan now ur in the booth and it's time for u to make ur choice. who hope ur kids understood the question

@chesnaughtfan opening scene: ur lined up at the voting booths in this dystopian hellscape, just before it's urgent turn to go into a booth a government official comes in with ur kid's preschool class and ur son waves to you before he's pushed into a booth he comes out and is ushered away

In a few years theyr gonna start production on the red button blue button movie

@wachig_wiwossa @KabaneriTV @kaileyinCA if i exclude the everyone and i narrow it down to just families of t3, mom and dad pick red, kid picks blue, kid 💀. mom and dad pick blue, kid picks red the family survives. im not gonna get upset and the kid picking red but i will get mad abt the parents whining abt picking red

Dying with people doesn’t save their lives. Choosing blue is suicidal unless you are confident enough that the outcome will be in favor of it winning. To me, it seems exceptionally clear this is extremely unlikely on a global scale. Even on this platform, blue is winning only by less than 10% margin on the polls I have seen. In real life, the numbers don’t go that way because 1. Global population demographics and 2. Actual risk. I’m fairly certain voting blue is a vote for suicide under those conditions, that’s why I wouldn’t be inclined to do it. Keep in mind that little good can come from dying with people or leaving people behind who are depending on you still. Under the conditions you proposed, I think for sure even more people would choose red. But I also don’t think there’s any real need to feel guilty because it’s an ideological choice. If they are willing to risk their lives to save people who are also choosing to risk their lives for some sort of unlikely optimal scenario, that’s still on them not you. It’s the difference between compassion and what Chogyam Trungpa called “idiot compassion”, I think. Well-intended but ultimately destructive in a scenario outside of an extremely high trust society where you can be guaranteed more than 50% of people vote in favor of collective survive at individual risk rather than individual survival at the risk of only those who chose to risk themselves.

@ZionFell @TTrynkowski @Siddharth87 @micsolana so you're argument is if i can't take care of my child then nobody will. you'd prefer ur kid dying then to be taken in by another red button pusher who is just thinking like u? that's prochoice over prolife

@TTrynkowski @Siddharth87 @micsolana The assumption you are doing this to save the children is laughable at best. There are 2 buttons. If enough children press red, you killed yourself for nothing, and you deserve it.

interesting how completely the conversation has shifted to kids. initially, most people assumed we were talking about adults, not babies smashing buttons, which kind of breaks the thought experiment. that this is all we’re now discussing implies blues understand they were wrong.

@wachig_wiwossa @KabaneriTV @kaileyinCA yeah if only those of voting age are made aware and are affected by the outcome of what they are voting for i'd lean more towards red. still feel shitty about it bc no matter what people are going to vote blue

@avakunas @KabaneriTV @kaileyinCA Would it change things for you if there was a more specific criteria for pressing the button?

@wachig_wiwossa @KabaneriTV @kaileyinCA yeah i'm not arguing any of that. im just more concerned about the fact that everybody physically capable of pressing a button is being allowed to press a button. the red take slides between empirical prediction and moral judgement

Fair. I see what you’re saying. I’m not suggesting everyone who says they’d choose blue is self-deceived or merely posturing. You’re right that there’s no way to know. But we can look at how ordinary people generally respond in scenarios where they can risk existential harm to themselves for the benefit of others, and self-sacrifice is rarely the common response. I’m sure some people really would choose blue, but I don’t think it would be anywhere near the numbers suggested by online polls where there is no actual cost, around 57%. So in that scenario, being part of the minority that might genuinely choose blue doesn’t actually help anyone, including the blue voters. They simply die alongside the other blue-button pushers. That makes it closer to a vote for suicide than a vote for ensuring nobody dies. In a truly high-trust society, my opinion and my choice would be different because the risk would be minimal rather than near-certain death. I don’t see how becoming one more martyr is a supportive choice in that sort of scenario.