Jerome

So, you should probably know that I am not nearly as sanctified as my theological vocabulary makes me sound. That is the problem with knowing the right categories while still carrying around the same old flesh. Because it is very easy to speak fluently about law and gospel, definitive sanctification, and the finished work of Christ, while still being impatient with your family, defensive when corrected, suspicious of other people’s motives, irritated by inconvenience, and far too impressed with your own ability to diagnose what is wrong with everyone else. The danger is not doctrine, because sound doctrine is a gift from God, but the danger is using doctrine as a way to pretend you are mature, as if the ability to explain the Christian life means you have somehow outgrown the need for grace. You can say “extra nos” while still looking within for something worth admiring. You can say “alien righteousness” while still trying to manufacture a little righteousness out of being the guy who knows about alien righteousness. You get the point... But here is the gospel solution. You, and I, need to remember that Jesus did not die for sinners who had already become acceptable, teachable, humble, and patient, but for the ungodly, the weak, the proud, the defensive, the weary, and the inconsistent people whose only hope is that righteousness comes from outside of them. So you do not need to pretend you are more sanctified than you really are. You need to be honest about your sin, brought low by the law, driven out of yourself, and turned again to the crucified and risen Christ, whose blood is sufficient for your guilt, whose righteousness is sufficient for your standing, and whose Spirit is sufficient for your growth. To be clear, the answer is not less theology. The answer is theology that keeps dragging us back to Jesus.

@Chris_Hohnholz Seems like you attracted the bots with your last few tweets haha. Chris, this has been a great discussion. I thank the Lord for your clarity and commitment to his word. Thank you for your kindness and willingness to discuss, I will be prayerfully reflecting on it all

This goes back to the issue of besetting sins. Most every Christian has an “orientation” to a particular sin they struggle with. It might be pride, anger, lust, covetousness, etc, but there is almost always a sin we never seem to be free of. This is where picking up our cross daily and following Christ comes in. We must mortify our sins daily, hourly even. We humble ourselves in prayer. We confess our sins to our brethren. We seek ongoing counsel from our elders. We are constant in our study of Scripture. We starve our flesh and feed our souls. Scripture never promises us we will be freed from all our sins while in this life, that happens in the age to come. But Scripture does promise that if we humble ourselves and trust in the Lord, he will equip us to escape the snares of temptation and sin. That is a daily, hourly, and even a minute by minute battle, but if we rely on him, we can overcome. This would be my counsel to anyone struggling with any besetting sin. And the fact that they hate their sin and desire to be free of it is a great place to be, because it shows the Holy Spirit has transformed their heart, because they desire the things of God, not the things of the flesh.

Sadly, this is not at all surprising, especially for those who warned about Alberry and Revoice for years. The ideology that disordered desires were not inherently sinful is the crack in the door that allows someone not to repent of the sinfulness of their heart. To treat "same sex attraction" as an orientation that is fine to have, provided it is not acted on, is antithetical to the holiness demanded of us in Scripture. The only surprising part of this is the language of “currently disqualified,” in the church's public statement, as opposed to permanently disqualified. Let's be real, the man was engaged in a homosexual relationship and lied about certain aspects of it. That certainly fails the “above reproach” standard of Scripture. Unless this church and those who have been swayed by the Revoice ideology come to recognize this, then this will not be the last time this happens. Alberry should absolutely be held accountable, and he should be guided through a disciplinary process that includes full repentance of his acts and desires. We should desire to see him restored, not as a pastor, but as a member of the body of Christ. But if he should later be restored to the pastorate after years of teaching a compromised ideology and then demonstrating through his own sins the fallibility of that ideology, then this will only perpetuate the same cycle of sexual sin in others. Alberry should be seen as a cautionary tale about what happens when we try to compromise the word of God with the ideologies of the world.

@Chris_Hohnholz (3/3) point, if someone still feels the default attraction to the same sex, what do you do? Is their repentance not full/genuine? Are they living in sin, in the sense that you think they are not saved (we are sinful pre/post justification, just not dead to it any longer)

@Chris_Hohnholz (2/3) be fixed of their wrongful orientation? I use the word orientation because lets assume here they know and agree its wrong, are fighting and praying against it, are not living into it, and as far as they can help it, not entertaining it in their mind/heart either. At this

@Chris_Hohnholz We are all not born perfect and only broken once we first sin. Sin exists, original sin is real, everything is broken. Do you not think this can corrupt sexuality from the moment of birth in such a way that certain people believe this was always there in their life?

@Chris_Hohnholz So yeah, I think this gets to the heart of the matter. Do you believe experiencing SSA is purely a choice? And not something someone feels from birth? Not that feeling it from birth makes it right, it does not, but does sin not corrupt everything?

@Chris_Hohnholz He does say very straightforward that SSA is a disordered desire and sinful in the sense that it is disordered by sin. When you are walking around and notice an attractive woman, in that moment, you fight the temptation to let that thought play out any further. You didn't desire

@Chris_Hohnholz The assertions that desires in and of themself aren't sinful is a delicate one, I agree, but I think we can both agree he's not talking about burning with desire, fantasizing over it, etc, but simply the base level inclincation toward something. I think this is where it gets hard

@AndyC4God @Eric_Conn Yeah we def have responsibility. It is a "both-and" kind of situation. We don't play fast and loose or have less responsibility because God is sovereign, nor is he less sovereign because he gives us responsibility. They mesh somehow, praise the Lord I dont have to understand how

@longshort241 @Eric_Conn That’s a good point. I don’t know. It’s hard to reconcile our responsibility with God’s sovereignty, but passages like Proverbs 22:6 and Titus 1:6 seem to imply that we do have some responsibility, even though the Lord actually does the saving.

Can we discuss the fact that John Piper’s one son pastors at Allberry’s gay church, and the other is a famous Reddit-tier social media God-hater?

So apparently I’m embroiled in some sort of controversy. Let me set a few things strait: 1. I don’t know Sam Allberry personally. We've met in-person a total of once — back in January while I was in Nashville when I did the Shawn Ryan Podcast, where I ran into and took a picture with Sam. When I saw the news initially about his removal from leadership I took that picture down. I had already started to see people commenting that by keeping it up I was implicating myself in his sin. I do not think they were correct. But ironically, said comments were then replaced with ones telling me that by taking it down… I was hiding something and implicating myself in his sin. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. 2. I believe the language in the current public statements to be potentially unhelpfully vague. From my (brief though not uninformed) understanding of the details of the situation, what Sam did that disqualified him from leadership was not due to sexual or even a romantic impropriety, but what could best be described as a sinful emotional attachment. This is not to justify it or say that it wasn't disqualifying (I think it probably was). But the lack of clarity has left room for those who desire to gossip, defame, and sinfully speculate online to run wild — which they have. 3. I am genuinely saddened with the internet’s desire to tear down and jump to harsh judgements regarding another Christian’s failing. When someone falls into sin, those who are spiritually mature should work toward their restoration, approaching them with a spirit of gentleness (Gal. 6:1-2). The motivation for restoration carries spiritual weight. Bringing someone back who has wandered from truth saves their soul from death and covers a multitude of sins (James 5:19–20). This isn’t merely about correcting behaviour, it’s about spiritual rescue. The desire to gossip and breed quarrels, which is so obviously warned against in scripture (Proverbs 17:19; 26:17; 2 Timothy 2:14, 23-24; Titus 3:9-11; James 4:1-2) is, to say the least, lamentable and disappointing to see. 4. Sam Allberry is being labelled as “Side B,” this is genuinely confusing to me. To quote Sam in his own words: “Same sex attraction is not a good thing. It is... a consequence of the fall. ...This kind of attraction is not something God designed for us, and it contradicts his design” (Is God Anti Gay, 63). Sam has expressed in multiple places throughout his written work and public talks that he holds to the biblical position of marriage, that homosexual relationships are sinful, and that identifying as a “gay Christian” is incompatible with scripture. To be clear, I don't agree with Sam on all the nuances of how he discusses the issue. But I can only conclude that this attempt to make him into an LBGT advocate comes from either shear ignorance of his public work or some sort of internet-level frothing of the mouth to jump on whoever “we don’t like this week.” But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. - Heb 3:13.

@Chris_Hohnholz @sidebeliever Chris, are you willing to give this a read and share some thoughts? In my understanding, this is a good representation of Side B, TGC, etc desiringgod.org/articles/is-it…

@longshort241 @sidebeliever I appreciate the respectful candor, these kinds of discussions are necessary and can only serve to sharpen the church.

@Chris_Hohnholz @sidebeliever This has been a good discussion. If I was verified I would post longer thoughts. I still don't know if I align with your idea that acknowledging someone's consistent bent towards struggling with SSA is equivalent to affirming the desire is not sinful

If they were saying Christians who struggle with sexual depravity or immorality, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. The issue at hand is underlying acceptance of the idea that “sexual orientation” is a fixed status that the church just has to live with or fear chasing people off. We don’t do that with lust, greed, or pride. We have no problem telling people these are sins that must be repented of. We don’t accept these as a person’s identity or soften it with unbiblical language. In the end, we should treat sinful desires in the same manner, calling it out as sin and bringing people to the foot of the cross where they can be forgiven. We should call them to repentance, helping them understand God calls us to holiness in our walk with Christ. All of this can be done with love and compassion, recognizing that besetting sin is hard, but sin nonetheless.

@Chris_Hohnholz @sidebeliever Okay so maybe the descriptors should come after the word "Christian" rather than before to make it less of an identity? Because surely exist many "Christians who struggle with lust/greed/pride". I think we're bordering on scaring ppl into silence in sharing what they struggle w

@longshort241 @sidebeliever The very fact that so many refer to such people as “gay Christians” or use the sanitized term “Same Sex Attraction” instead of the biblical term of sexual immorality indicates such, yes.

@ahirundorustica @Eric_Conn what is your TLDR version of what you think Piper is primarily guilty of

@longshort241 @Eric_Conn If Piper truly loved Jesus, he would do what He commanded.

Many people aren’t ready to hear it, but Piper (et al) absolutely muffed the punt on biblical sexuality. Many of the chickens are coming home to roost for complementarianism and it ain’t pretty.

@Chris_Hohnholz @sidebeliever Amen. But your last sentence, do you think this is really what their (Side B, TGC, etc) theology says? To me it seems like the accurate take is that the desire is unnatural/sinful, and simultaneously God not "healing" you from it is a very possible reality, as evidenced by many

It is much like any other besetting sin. We are called to daily take up our cross and follow Christ. It means recognizing those desires are contrary to God’s design and command for us. It means denying the desires of the flesh regardless of how strong the temptation may be. It means crucifying our sinful desires, confessing them as sin, and repenting. It means studying the word of God daily and doing what it says. It means taking our sinful desires to the elders over us and confessing them, seeking biblical counsel and direction. It may mean a lifetime of singleness and serving the Lord in whatever capacity he has called us. But what it never means is “accepting” those desires as natural or as part of our “identity.”

@InductivReason @Eric_Conn If you loved Jesus 10% of how much that man loves Jesus, you would be in a better place

@Eric_Conn The fruit of Piper ministry (of which his family should be foremost) is by-in-large rotten

@ahirundorustica @Eric_Conn If you loved Jesus 10% of how much that man loves Jesus, you would be in a better place

@Eric_Conn Piper is and always has been an enemy of Christ

@Chris_Hohnholz @sidebeliever Okay Chris, genuine question. What is your answer to the Q if SSA can be an inclination someone feels from birth? What are they to do about it? Even if they recognize the inclination as sinful and pray for it to go away, and it does not...then what? Thats what this boils down to

@sidebeliever Or, I’m genuinely concerned about how compromised theology and ideology lays the groundwork for unrepentant sin. Have a blessed day,