Fox the Mutt

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Fox the Mutt

Fox the Mutt

@mutt_fox

Katılım Ocak 2023
375 Takip Edilen319 Takipçiler
bongle
bongle@Bongl0id·
@souljagoyteller I think Lee is rated pretty much exactly where he should be, nobody considers him one of the greats
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@olivertraldi I agree. I also think it’s a good perspective. There’s a hundred translations out there and it’s nice to have a different perspective. As Wilson herself says, every translation makes choices. I like seeing as many perspectives on the original Greek as possible. Keeps us thinking
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Oliver Traldi
Oliver Traldi@olivertraldi·
This is actually a great example of the translation's perspective. Wilson removes Achilles's "godlike" modifier and uses the psychologizing "yearned" (compare other translations: "charioteering on", "pressed on"). She calls his hands "lethal" (compare "strong", "all-conquering").
Paul McLeod@pdmcleod

Part of what's silly about the Emily Wilson fuss is people on twitter talk as if her Homer translations have the Greeks all go to therapy and work out their differences over cups of soy ambrosia and then you actually read her verse and it's metal as hell

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Roman Helmet Guy
Roman Helmet Guy@romanhelmetguy·
@GenHeres123 God creates great men. God works through great men. That’s Great Man Theory.
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Roman Helmet Guy
Roman Helmet Guy@romanhelmetguy·
Homer is the original Great Man Theorist of history. He’s not telling you the Trojans lost the war because of climate change. He’s telling you the tale of Hector, Odysseus, and Achilles.
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@shellenberger Moron. It’s not about property rights, it’s about Xenia, or hospitality. How a host treats his guests and how a guest treats his host in turn. It’s about the fundamental glue that hold society together: hospitality to strangers, and promised reciprocity.
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Michael Shellenberger
Michael Shellenberger@shellenberger·
Odysseus isn't really a hero, a progressive 2017 translation implies. But he is, and the moral of his story is in part about the importance of property rights, which are foundational to Western civilization. Little wonder, then, that the academic Left wages war on "The Odyssey."
Michael Shellenberger@shellenberger

Controversy has erupted over Christopher Nolan’s forthcoming film adaptation of Homer’s poem The Odyssey, which arrives in the wake of a contested 2017 translation by Emily Wilson, a classics professor at the University of Pennsylvania. Critics of Wilson’s translation argue that she has rewritten Odysseus from a hero into a morally suspect figure. Nolan cast a black actress, Lupita Nyong’o, to play the Mediterranean woman Helen of Troy, prompting criticisms of hypocrisy and racism from Elon Musk and others. It is inconceivable that Hollywood would today use a white actor to play a black character, and yet the media applauds when white characters are played by black actors. Isabella Reinhardt, an assistant professor of classics at the University of Austin, and my colleague, disagrees with some of Wilson’s choices. For example, Wilson translates polytropos, which Homer uses to describe Odysseus, as a “complicated man,” where Robert Fagles, in his 1996 translation, renders it as a “man of twists and turns.” The choice is representative of Wilson’s depiction of Odysseus as something other than heroic. Reinhardt, who recorded a podcast with me last week, received her PhD in the same Penn classics department where Wilson teaches. “I do think Odysseus is not a perfect hero,” says Reinhardt, “but he is the hero. Her translation strays into a negative view of Odysseus that’s not entirely warranted....” Please subscribe now to support Public's award-winning journalism, read the full article, and watch the full podcast!

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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@thestustustudio @TIME It’s pretty awesome how she is able to keep the line count consistent with the original Greek while also using iambic pentameter to match our natural rhythm. It’s also so much cleaner. Don’t get me wrong I love a bombastic verse but Wilson made a great translation also.
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Stu Smith
Stu Smith@thestustustudio·
@TIME They used the Emily Wilson translation, which is basically The Odyssey for people who thought Homer needed to be run through a modern accessibility filter. Look at how she butchered it.
Stu Smith tweet mediaStu Smith tweet media
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TIME
TIME@TIME·
TIME’s new cover: ‘The Odyssey’ is arguably the biggest film of Christopher Nolan’s career. It may also be the summer blockbuster the entertainment industry needs right now time.com/article/2026/0…
TIME tweet media
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@Babygravy9 Actually no, you need to read the translation to know if it’s good or not. It happens to be good by the way.
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RAW EGG NATIONALIST
RAW EGG NATIONALIST@Babygravy9·
TBH you only need to look at this picture of Emily Wilson to know her translation of the Odyssey isn’t worth reading.
RAW EGG NATIONALIST tweet media
Roman Helmet Guy@romanhelmetguy

Emily Wilson completely changed the meaning of a key word in the Odyssey to make it seem like Helen of Troy didn't blame herself for starting the Trojan War, when in fact the text makes it clear that she did. In 4.145-146, Helen calls herself κυνώπιδος (dog-faced). This is an insult meaning "shameless." It is commonly used to refer to unfaithful lovers. For example, it is used elsewhere in the Odyssey (8.319) to refer to Aphrodite after she cheats on Hephaestus with Ares. Fagles translates 4.145-146 to: "all you Achaeans fought at Troy, launching your headlong battles just for my sake, shameless whore that I was.” Lattimore translates 4.145-146 to: "for the sake of shameless me, the Achaians went beneath Troy, their hearts intent upon reckless warfare." Wilson completely changes the meaning of κυνώπιδος to "hounded" (she is trying to be cute by translating 'dog-faced' to a word that still relates to dogs, even though its actual meaning is completely unrelated). She then applies this word to the Achaeans, saying that they were hounded, not Helen. Her translation is in the image below. This is obviously an ideological change that she made because she personally believes Helen shouldn't be blamed for the Trojan War. She deliberated distorted the meaning of one of the foundational texts of Western literature to conform with her modern beliefs.

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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@The_Jaded_Geek Suck my dick loser. Emily Wilson’s translation is good. You’re allowed to prefer another, but you can’t pretend it’s a bad translation. If you say it is, then you simply haven’t read Homer.
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The Jaded Geek ✝️🇸🇴🇺🇸🇩🇪
An excellent rebuke of the shameless bitch, Emily Wilson, whose physiognomy proves once again, that you can judge a bitch by its cover…
Homer Pavlos@HomerPavlos

Emily Wilson is a kind of a feminist that is truly a bad person that wants to hurt you. Not directly, but in depth, through her profession as a classicist. She is attacking my culture and the Greeks because she hates virtues. She is blatantly lying because most of you don't know to read Greek. But I am Greek and I can read both modern and ancient Greek. So let me tell you why she is purposely lying. The references with insulting epithets toward the servant/slave women who betrayed Odysseus’s house and slept with the suitors are numerous. The most common ones, however, are "bitches" and "shameless" that were serious insults. Most foreigners translated the word "bitch" as "slut" which is correct to say that this is wrong because it's not what the text writes but in a sense of "non-literal translation" it's not out of context because those women who slept with the suitors and betrayed Penelope were "shameless bitches". Especially the word "shameless" is a strong insult in Greek. It implies sexual shamelessness lack of decency, and moral boldness and this is why foreign translators are using the word "sluts" in English. But Homer doesn't use the Greek word directly to call them "whores". The following translations I will use are made directly from the ancient Greek text into modern Greek. We Greeks do not read foreign translations. What we call an adaptation (απόδοση) from ancient to modern Greek is not considered a "translation" for us, since it is the same language. In other words an adaptation of a Greek text bridges the gap between ancient or dialectic Greek and the modern target audience. 1. Odysseus to a servant woman (Book 18, line 340): "Bitch, if I go and immediately repeat your wretched words to Telemachus, he will tear you to pieces, you’ll be smashed into bits." [ἦ τάχα Τηλεμάχῳ ἐρέω, κύον (=Bitch), οἷ᾽ ἀγορεύεις, κεῖσ᾽ ἐλθών, ἵνα σ᾽ αὖθι διὰ μελεϊστὶ τάμῃσιν] 2. Penelope to Melantho (the servant who slept with Eurymachus and betrayed them), when Melantho spoke rudely to Odysseus (who was still disguised) (Book 19, line 91): "Nevertheless, you bold, shameless bitch, you do not escape my notice at all, doing a great deed which you will wipe off on your own head." [πάντως, θαρσαλέη, κύον ἀδεές (=fearless bitch), οὔ τί με λήθεις ἔρδουσα μέγα ἔργον, ὃ σῇ κεφαλῇ ἀναμάξεις] 3. "Perhaps in foreign lands too, some servant women insult him, every time he enters a famous lord’s house, just like these bitches here who all together insult you, stranger. I imagine that to avoid their reproach, their shamelessness…" (Book 19, around line 370) 4. "Servant women shamelessly dragging themselves here and there." (Book 20, line 318) 5. "Twelve of them appeared completely shameless, who had no regard for me and showed no respect to Penelope." (Book 22, line 422) Emily Wilson cannot tolerate any criticism of the women who betrayed the man Odysseus and slept like shameless bitches with the enemy, betraying Penelope. In her worldview, men are always the bad guys, and only women are the heroines. She herself calls the academic translators misogynists. It is inconceivable that there are today "eunuch" academics who defend this malicious and worthless woman. This woman is in Classical Studies in order to destroy them, so that you, who will read her books, will form a false image of the epics that built Western civilization. How Odysseus is not a hero, Achilles is not a hero, men are not great and brave but evil, and how the patriarchy must be fought so that women can win. They are trying to convince you that there is no heroism in Homer. Yet the epics were written precisely for this reason: so that you understand what it means to be a hero, what sacrifices are required, what difficulties you will face, and how you will achieve eternal fame. How you will conquer your passions, how anger destroys you, and how moral virtues lead you toward godlike status. She hates all of this. She wants you spiritually dead. She hates you. Therefore, it is completely justified for you to hate them too.

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jamie
jamie@jmsnftzptrck·
Emily Wilson not my favorite translator but I looove how mad she makes guys who suck
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@MyopicEeyore If you can’t read Greek then shut the fuck up. Shes a respected classicist. That is, respected by other classicists. Your opinion is irrelevant.
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MyopicEeyore
MyopicEeyore@MyopicEeyore·
I’ve never been able to read Greek and can’t read Latin anymore, but I can read people. Emily Wilson seems like an angry and resentful woman. She should take some time away from Homer to focus on herself!
Homer Pavlos@HomerPavlos

Emily Wilson is a kind of a feminist that is truly a bad person that wants to hurt you. Not directly, but in depth, through her profession as a classicist. She is attacking my culture and the Greeks because she hates virtues. She is blatantly lying because most of you don't know to read Greek. But I am Greek and I can read both modern and ancient Greek. So let me tell you why she is purposely lying. The references with insulting epithets toward the servant/slave women who betrayed Odysseus’s house and slept with the suitors are numerous. The most common ones, however, are "bitches" and "shameless" that were serious insults. Most foreigners translated the word "bitch" as "slut" which is correct to say that this is wrong because it's not what the text writes but in a sense of "non-literal translation" it's not out of context because those women who slept with the suitors and betrayed Penelope were "shameless bitches". Especially the word "shameless" is a strong insult in Greek. It implies sexual shamelessness lack of decency, and moral boldness and this is why foreign translators are using the word "sluts" in English. But Homer doesn't use the Greek word directly to call them "whores". The following translations I will use are made directly from the ancient Greek text into modern Greek. We Greeks do not read foreign translations. What we call an adaptation (απόδοση) from ancient to modern Greek is not considered a "translation" for us, since it is the same language. In other words an adaptation of a Greek text bridges the gap between ancient or dialectic Greek and the modern target audience. 1. Odysseus to a servant woman (Book 18, line 340): "Bitch, if I go and immediately repeat your wretched words to Telemachus, he will tear you to pieces, you’ll be smashed into bits." [ἦ τάχα Τηλεμάχῳ ἐρέω, κύον (=Bitch), οἷ᾽ ἀγορεύεις, κεῖσ᾽ ἐλθών, ἵνα σ᾽ αὖθι διὰ μελεϊστὶ τάμῃσιν] 2. Penelope to Melantho (the servant who slept with Eurymachus and betrayed them), when Melantho spoke rudely to Odysseus (who was still disguised) (Book 19, line 91): "Nevertheless, you bold, shameless bitch, you do not escape my notice at all, doing a great deed which you will wipe off on your own head." [πάντως, θαρσαλέη, κύον ἀδεές (=fearless bitch), οὔ τί με λήθεις ἔρδουσα μέγα ἔργον, ὃ σῇ κεφαλῇ ἀναμάξεις] 3. "Perhaps in foreign lands too, some servant women insult him, every time he enters a famous lord’s house, just like these bitches here who all together insult you, stranger. I imagine that to avoid their reproach, their shamelessness…" (Book 19, around line 370) 4. "Servant women shamelessly dragging themselves here and there." (Book 20, line 318) 5. "Twelve of them appeared completely shameless, who had no regard for me and showed no respect to Penelope." (Book 22, line 422) Emily Wilson cannot tolerate any criticism of the women who betrayed the man Odysseus and slept like shameless bitches with the enemy, betraying Penelope. In her worldview, men are always the bad guys, and only women are the heroines. She herself calls the academic translators misogynists. It is inconceivable that there are today "eunuch" academics who defend this malicious and worthless woman. This woman is in Classical Studies in order to destroy them, so that you, who will read her books, will form a false image of the epics that built Western civilization. How Odysseus is not a hero, Achilles is not a hero, men are not great and brave but evil, and how the patriarchy must be fought so that women can win. They are trying to convince you that there is no heroism in Homer. Yet the epics were written precisely for this reason: so that you understand what it means to be a hero, what sacrifices are required, what difficulties you will face, and how you will achieve eternal fame. How you will conquer your passions, how anger destroys you, and how moral virtues lead you toward godlike status. She hates all of this. She wants you spiritually dead. She hates you. Therefore, it is completely justified for you to hate them too.

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Doug Bright
Doug Bright@DougBright1·
So you prefer the passive Helen who was passed around by three men like a piece of used furniture, stood on the walls of Troy fixing her makeup, wringing her hands and clutching her pearls because she thought she was so superficially pretty that a war was started over her (not true) and then she went home as a trophy wife not really taking part in anything? Got it. How boring. A significantly diminished role. Bit part. Been done. Now who is the misogynist? I like my version better.
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@DougBright1 @GraceOM63384867 @StefanMolyneux “Mission accomplished” lolol. Also, women were not generally raped and killed. They were enslaved for life and also raped. Neoptolomus took Andromache, Odysseus took Hecuba, and Agamemnon took Casandra. Helen was taken by the man who already owned her.
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Doug Bright
Doug Bright@DougBright1·
Well, as you’ve exemplified, most people can no longer think in parables so they assign silly romantic drivel to history. A City under siege in ancient times could only be taken in two ways: a direct bloody assault or betrayal by the inside. The Greeks did both. Helen was the betrayer. Notice she was carefully spared in the final assault. Women were generally raped and killed. This was the price of not surrendering. Helen was not. She “reconciled” with the King of Sparta and they returned to their positions of King and Queen. Mission accomplished. You read it without understanding it.
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@DougBright1 @GraceOM63384867 @StefanMolyneux I’ve read it. You just described the events of the story, not the way the writer portrays the morality of the characters. Learn to read a book, not just the plot synopsis on Wikipedia or ai or whatever. Your take is so juvenile. lol talking about villains in Homer
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Doug Bright
Doug Bright@DougBright1·
She commits adultery, runs off with her lover and when caught can go back to her husband, king Menelaus of Sparta to avert a war but doesn’t. Menelaus uses her as a pawn, a human Trojan horse if you will, as his excuse to begin his war of conquest. When the naive Paris is killed in battle she marries his brother Deiphobus, hides his sword during the assault on Troy and defenseless, he’s killed by King Menelaus who she returns to Sparta with and they continue to rule Sparta. A duplicitous double agent. You need to read it the first time.
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@DougBright1 @GraceOM63384867 @StefanMolyneux No, it’s not. Blackface is when a white person paints their face to look like a black person, either in genuine attempt at imitation or to caricature. That’s what it’s always meant. Also, Helen was peloponneseian, not Anatolian. Her dad was also Zeus so who fuckin cares.
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@DougBright1 @GraceOM63384867 @StefanMolyneux Ok you also need to read Homer again. Helen is a sympathetic character in her own right in both Homeric epics. Calling her a villain is kinda silly. It’s like calling calypso a villain. Like it doesn’t even make sense and it’s just a holdover from Victorian era misogony.
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@stacycay @timbeardsux How on earth can you pretend you specifically haven’t been actively doing this for the past few months?
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Fox the Mutt
Fox the Mutt@mutt_fox·
@bohumilo @cafreiman That’s bc Fidel let ppl leave if they wanted to. Try leaving America without a passport moron.
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