David W

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David W

David W

@rn_flex

Primary care NP, lover of glucagon agonism, incretin nerd, photographer, mountain lover, coonhound rescuer

Primary care land Katılım Ekim 2021
234 Takip Edilen1.1K Takipçiler
David W
David W@rn_flex·
@ManOnThePen And we get EloraTirz data in type 2 diabetics at EASD in September. 48 week trial, powered for weight loss outcomes 1st and A1c reductions 2nd. Good chance it hits the 21% weight loss we just saw with Triumph 2 and Reta
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On The Pen™
On The Pen™@ManOnThePen·
8️⃣ Current timelines: • Novo Nordisk’s CagriSema (cagrilintide + semaglutide) is expected to reach the market first, potentially in early 2027. • Lilly’s eloralintide program appears to be tracking closer to a potential 2029 timeframe. The next few years should tell us whether selective amylin receptor activation proves to be the winning strategy.
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On The Pen™
On The Pen™@ManOnThePen·
Eloralintide vs. Cagrilintide Amylin Wars🧵($LLY vs $NVO) Both are next-generation amylin drugs designed to treat obesity, but they’re built VERY differently. That difference may help explain why Lilly and Novo Nordisk took completely different development paths, and why one looks quite superior. 👇
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@ResearchPulse1 One asked for pill option initially, then after discussing it, went with Zepbound as they wanted most weight loss with least amount of effort/titration steps(didn't like the idea of fasting for 30 minutes)
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ResearchPulse
ResearchPulse@ResearchPulse1·
@rn_flex No bridge patients of yours asking for pill? Are your patients new to branded glp1 obesity ?
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Bioinvestor24
Bioinvestor24@bioinvestor24·
Only 1-2 wks with Medicare entry and huge jump in GLP1 class Rx from $LLY and $NVO .. expect much more to come. There is price attrition on diabetes reimbursement by Medicare but as models predicted the increase in volume will be much bigger than that. Price by Medicare still very competitive vs other CV or metabolic drugs $ABBV $BMY $AMGN and others will be watching. GLP1 RX for Medicare pts alone will Eclipse global PCSK9 inh Rx that $MRK is very excited about
Bioinvestor24@bioinvestor24

This is incorrect article. Medicare population that qualifies is much higher than this and the program is a huge push for both $LLY and $NVO. It could actually save novo so its investors should thank US admin for that. But will probably be gradual. Although I expect big initial wave. Will benefit other obesity biotech value $VKTX $KLRA

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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@cxliu06 Lilly has done this before but not as an official end point, but have published and presented data on this with Reta and Tirz. Definitely a WL difference between women and men.
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CX Liu
CX Liu@cxliu06·
$NVO added %BW loss for women in Ph3 REDEFINE-11 for Cagrisema as secondary. With higher BW loss in women being known effect across GLP-1 and amylin, this may be the first sex-stratified endpoint that I can recall. The study could achieve better BW loss by design. $LLY
CX Liu tweet mediaCX Liu tweet mediaCX Liu tweet media
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@bioinvestor24 Also if I'm doing the math right that Wegovy increase is almost driven entirely by pills. About 4k injection vs 22k pills prescribed based on data.
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Bioinvestor24
Bioinvestor24@bioinvestor24·
$LLY TZP growth in absolute number is Multiple folds of combined orals from Lilly and $NVO Zepbound TRx was up +8% w/w and NRx were up +11% w/w, respectively, with TRx ending the week at ~710k vs. the prior week's ~659k. •Wegovy TRx were up +8% w/w and NRx were up +13% w/w, respectively, with TRx ending the week at ~326k vs. the prior week's ~301k. Inj. TRx for Diabetes (M+O) were up +5% w/w. •Mounjaro TRx were up +6% w/w and NRx were up +8% w/w, respectively, with TRx ending the week at ~828k vs. the prior week's ~784k. •Ozempic TRx were up +4% w/w and NRx were up +6% w/w, with TRx ending the week at ~505k vs. the prior week's ~485k.
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@bioinvestor24 @JCanNuSH I'm sure they will. They did with triumph 1. Rate was similar to placebo across all arms. Full data presented at EASD so we'll find out in about 65 days.
David W tweet media
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Bioinvestor24
Bioinvestor24@bioinvestor24·
All that’s good. We are trying to pursue reality here. $LLy should detail all the arrhythmia incidence as it was significant in the NEJM phase 2 ( was not malignant arrhythmia but frequency was concerning ) Now 1000 pt per arm for 80 wks with dramatic wt loss and reduction in CV risk factors , u expect some reduction in CV events. U need large trials for modest impact but Reta is twice as effective as $NVO sema. So absence of mace 3 improvement ( in the presence of mace 5 numeral improvement ) is concerning nonetheless in terms of arrhythmia driven events. All that in background of tachycardia triggered by glucagon agonism that novo and others documented years ago.
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Jen Can NuSH
Jen Can NuSH@JCanNuSH·
🤔Spent some time thinking through TRIUMPH-3, Lilly’s 80 week trial for adults with severe obesity and established cardiovascular disease (w/ or w/o diabetes). I was disappointed that there wasn’t a more meaningful positive health signal for Reta related to CVD (superiority), but 80 weeks, even with nearly 1000 patients on Reta and placebo each, is just not enough time to do so. The ONLY thing it can really do is show if there’s a glaring safety signal when used in at risk patients and that is WHAT the FDA wants the CVD trials for, particularly in T2D patients. But to meaningfully track cardiovascular outcomes to show SUPERIORITY and not just safety (and to avoid statistical noise), you need thousands of patients per arm and at least a few years. 🧮 Examples: ▪️Semaglutide’s SELECT trial for cardiovascular outcomes in obesity w/o diabetes enrolled 8800 patients each in the semaglutide and placebo arms, with some patients enrolled for 4 years ▪️Dulaglutide’s REWIND trial for cardiovascular outcomes in type 2 diabetes enrolled ~5000 patients per arm for up to 6 years ▪️Tirzepatide’s SURPASS-CVOT trial vs dula for cardiovascular outcomes in T2D used nearly 6600 patients per arm for up to 4.5 years So what can we take away from this trial (at least so far - with just top line info)? Strong cardiometabolic improvements. For comparison, I’m going to also look at SELECT (the semaglutide CVD in obesity trial), and SURMOUNT-1 (tirzepatide in obesity but not a CVD trial - we’re still waiting on the big SURMOUNT-MMO to complete). These are all reductions. ▪️Triglycerides: Reta 37%, Tirz 31%, Sema 18%. ▪️Non-HDL cholesterol: Reta 16.5%, Tirz 13.4% ▪️Systolic: Reta 9.3 mmHG, Tirz 7.6, Sema 3.8 ▪️hsCRP: Reta 51.2%, Sema 39.1% * SELECT data is treatment regimen estimand, but all other data is efficacy estimand But what about those MACE-3 numbers? ▪️The in-trial hazard ratio for MACE-3 1.12 makes it appear like reta may have increased risk, but the on treatment HR was 0.92. ▪️Given that reta had 27 MACE-3 events compared to 23 for placebo, and given the difference between in trial and on-treatment, I estimate 5-6 patients who discontinued reta treatment had MACE-3 events. The actual on treatment ratio was likely around 22 reta to 23 placebo. On-treatment numbers exclude patients who had a MACE-3 event > 35 days after discontinuing study treatment.
Jen Can NuSH@JCanNuSH

TRIUMPH-3. Less exciting and maybe disappointing? Across both placebo and treatment arms, they ran into reduced rates of MACE than expected, which is problematic for a CVD trial. ▪️22.6% WL (12mg), 21.6% WL (9mg), 3.2% (placebo) ▪️On Treatment MACE-3 - Hazard ratio = 0.92 95.0% CI: 0.51 to 1.65; In study HR went up to 1.22 ▪️On treatment MACE-5 - Hazard ratio = 0.73 95.0% CI: 0.47 to 1.12; In study HR went up to 1.12 “In the study, major adverse cardiovascular events (MACE) occurred less frequently than anticipated in both retatrutide and placebo arms. In pre-specified analyses for time to first occurrence of MACE, there were 44 MACE-5 (all-cause death, heart attack, stroke, heart failure event, or coronary revascularization) events observed in participants randomized to retatrutide (pooled 9 mg and 12 mg) and 52 events observed in those randomized to placebo… There were 27 MACE-3 (cardiovascular death, heart attack, or stroke) events in participants randomized to retatrutide and 23 in those randomized to placebo.”

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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@bioinvestor24 Different side effect note, todays Reta data was interesting from the standpoint of GIP decreasing nausea. #1 side effect in both trials was diarrhea. Think it's bile acid diarrhea from GCG agonism. Could probably slow it down with bile acid sequestrants.
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Bioinvestor24
Bioinvestor24@bioinvestor24·
$RHHBY trying today to paint Ct388 as BIC is deceiving to say the least. MGT implicitly tried to present is as a better than $LLY TZP .. which is untrue. At least from PK is an inferior molecule. But also from difference between treatment and efficacy estimands that Roche and their presenting MD failed to explain. There is clearly higher total DC rate and double vomit rate of what is seen with TZP
Bioinvestor24 tweet mediaBioinvestor24 tweet mediaBioinvestor24 tweet media
Bioinvestor24@bioinvestor24

At wk 28 $RHHBY Ct388 achieved 15% wt loss by efficacy estimand vs $LLY TZP 16% at wk 28. Then ct388 continues to cause further wt loss but all by efficacy estimand. We really don’t know what happened. Treatment estimand is much lower ? We don’t know placebo wt loss for treatment estimand ? It is not due to escalation rate as similar time wise for both molecules . I got a feeling Roche doesn’t have deep expertise in obesity when it comes to evaluating M&A targets or when reporting trials or even designing protocols ?

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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@ObvsRetardation @JCanNuSH No not really. Published Transcend paper in the lancet. 7 point SMBG and FPG tell a very different story. Chronic GCG agonism ⏫ insulin sensitivity and lowers both endogenous insulin and GCG production. Hyperglycemic effect is transitory as the liver dumps glycogen stores
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Occam's Retard
Occam's Retard@ObvsRetardation·
@JCanNuSH 1.1% placebo adjusted. versus 2.1% placebo adjusted for tzp. I pointed this out to you before when you shared that table. and raising the dose doesn't get you much, 1.6% absolute reduction at the lowest dose versus 1.9% at the highest. That's GCG agonism fighting you
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@AppleHelix On treatment = treatment estimand Shows benefit leaning towards Reta if I'm reading it correctly. Ultimately, I think the trial was too short time wise. CV outcomes need more than 88 weeks. Feels like an error on Lilly's part
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Jing Liang 🇺🇦
Jing Liang 🇺🇦@AppleHelix·
Good catch! Glucagon agonism will increase heart rate. Wonder if this is now causing more MACE-3s? On-treatment vs. in-study is quite confusing here...
Jing Liang 🇺🇦 tweet media
RickMedChem@RickMedChem

@AppleHelix You sure? How about HR for MACE-3 and 5?

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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@ResearchPulse1 @JCanNuSH Yeah I think that sounds about right. I'll be curious the subgroup that started with A1c>8% on this trial. I'd expect less WL but probably trending towards 2% A1c reduction. Full data in about 65 days at EASD.
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ResearchPulse
ResearchPulse@ResearchPulse1·
@rn_flex @JCanNuSH Yes that looks like their game plan. But still surprised considering it’s efficacy data. Looking at TRANSCEND-T2D-1 data Efficacy ITT A1c -2.0%. 1.9% WL16.8%. 15.3% So ITT in T2 could be in the range of A1c -1.4% WL 19.3%
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Jen Can NuSH
Jen Can NuSH@JCanNuSH·
🚨TRIUMPH-2 and -3 topline results are out for retatrutide. TRIUMPH-2 was a weight loss trial in T2D patients, while TRIUMPH-3 enrolled a mix of patients with established cardiovascular disease w/ or w/o T2D and a min BMI of 35. The GREAT: ▪️TRIUMPH-2: Weight loss - 20.8% (12mg), 19.1% (9mg), 12.7% (4mg), 4.0% Placebo Those are HUGE numbers for diabetics. For comparison, SURMOUNT-2 with tirzepatide saw an average loss of 15.7% for 15mg and that was a giant step up from STEP-2 for Semaglutide (10.6%). Speaking of stepping up, STEP UP T2D for Semaglutide hit 13.2%. The not so great: ▪️TRIUMPH-2: A1C reduction between 1.6% and 1.4% with a baseline of 7.7%. All WL/A1C numbers are efficacy estimands. TRANSCEND-T2D-1 saw 2.0% reduction in 40 weeks with no metformin or other glucose lowering meds. TRIUMPH-2 required patients to be on a stable diabetes treatment for 90 days prior.
Jen Can NuSH tweet media
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ResearchPulse
ResearchPulse@ResearchPulse1·
@JCanNuSH The most surprising though is it will be filed as BLA. Has $LLY won their court case against FDA for labelling it a Biologics🤔
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@ResearchPulse1 @JCanNuSH Yeah I think transcend 2 and 3 will be more powered for A1c. Both those are in sicker diabetic populations. Expect less weight loss but more A1c reductions in those two trials for sure.
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ResearchPulse
ResearchPulse@ResearchPulse1·
Those data is a bit all over the place T2 Very low baseline A1c together with very high BMI means it’s primed for WL and not A1c. So not surprised A1c reduction is low in such population. But when also considering its Efficacy Estimand…… that means ITT will be even lower. Fantastic to see the first molecule break 20% in T2D!! ITT will be under 20% but still
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@JCanNuSH @flippyfloppy52 Those were new diabetics. Easier to get big reductions as they have more beta cell function, less insulin resistance. For a trial like this I'd eager these were diabetics for at least 7-8 years so less beta cell function, more IR.
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@JCanNuSH Keep in context Triumph 3 was 50% diabetic patients so that's why the weight loss is lower. And yeah they tried to rush CV outcomes. Can't do that. Need more time and more patients(hence Triumph Outcomes trial)
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Jen Can NuSH
Jen Can NuSH@JCanNuSH·
TRIUMPH-3. Less exciting and maybe disappointing? Across both placebo and treatment arms, they ran into reduced rates of MACE than expected, which is problematic for a CVD trial. ▪️22.6% WL (12mg), 21.6% WL (9mg), 3.2% (placebo) ▪️On Treatment MACE-3 - Hazard ratio = 0.92 95.0% CI: 0.51 to 1.65; In study HR went up to 1.22 ▪️On treatment MACE-5 - Hazard ratio = 0.73 95.0% CI: 0.47 to 1.12; In study HR went up to 1.12 “In the study, major adverse cardiovascular events (MACE) occurred less frequently than anticipated in both retatrutide and placebo arms. In pre-specified analyses for time to first occurrence of MACE, there were 44 MACE-5 (all-cause death, heart attack, stroke, heart failure event, or coronary revascularization) events observed in participants randomized to retatrutide (pooled 9 mg and 12 mg) and 52 events observed in those randomized to placebo… There were 27 MACE-3 (cardiovascular death, heart attack, or stroke) events in participants randomized to retatrutide and 23 in those randomized to placebo.”
Jen Can NuSH tweet media
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@flippyfloppy52 @JCanNuSH Cuz starting A1c was low at 7.7% there's a floor effect basically for reduction. With GLP1 meds you can goose A1c reductions just by starting with a higher A1c. Regardless these patients ended with an A1c of 6.1% which is fabulous for diabetes
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Dr. CFA|CMT (PhD)
Dr. CFA|CMT (PhD)@flippyfloppy52·
@JCanNuSH Wondering what the reasons are for the lackluster A1C reduction.. Any tip?
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@bioinvestor24 Oh I can't wait 🙄 One thing to note, on treatment estimand was more favorable towards Reta. So yeah, longer trial, bigger sample size benefit will be clear as always with CV outcomes.
David W tweet media
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Bioinvestor24
Bioinvestor24@bioinvestor24·
@rn_flex Yeh. But will be interesting to listen to novo reaction 😂
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David W
David W@rn_flex·
@bioinvestor24 Also Triumph 2, same thing A1c was lower than I expected but starting A1c only 7.7% so 1.6% gets patients to 6.1% ending. Wished they'd have picked higher A1c patients. But then again weight loss 19-21% is impressive.
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dan v
dan v@danv929055·
@DrSamuelBHume How does one convince a doctor (or find a doctor willing) to prescribe statins when LDL and ApoB are high but risk score is not? or do I just have to go to Mexico?
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Samuel Hume
Samuel Hume@DrSamuelBHume·
Cardiovascular prevention is getting more and more sophisticated, with new targets and approaches in the pipeline. But there's a huge prevention gap even for the basics - many don't reach target levels for LDL-cholesterol, and, of those, many aren't even taking statins:
Samuel Hume tweet media
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