patrixxx thoughts

I looked at the studies. Both only tested 2,000iu and 1gram total of omega 3. That's nothing. 2,000iu of Vit D will only raise a man's blood 25(OH)D to 25ng/mL. 1 gram of fish oil will only provide 0.1gDHA for the heart. Of course vitamin D will provide zero benefit--the dose is too low!! that's like being in the desert and I give you a sip of water, and you die of thirst. The water didn't help at all----the dose required is FAR higher.

Lynx, do we need to go through this again? 150 years ago we had no TV, electricity, or wifi. Everyone played outside, there were no jobs in Alaska, there were no research stations in Antarctica, and no "graveyard shift" where you worked 7PM to 7AM and slept all day. Count yourself blessed if you can get sun year-round. But good grief, there are a lot of people out there who either can't get outside, or whose job doesn't allow them to. At a minimum, think about sailors in the navy who go on deployment for 6-9 months and never see the sun. Or the poor sods in Ireland or UK where they never see the sun, 11 months of the year. Or for that matter, the astronauts on the moon or mars. Remember, "normal" is what YOU do, for you.

@thoughts50705 @FarminChimp @SamaHoole Makes no sense. Our ancestors were hunting and consuming mammoths. Supplement did not exist. Nobody is vitamin D deficient if they get outside enough. K2 cannot be the problem everyone thinks it is. Our ancestors thrived without supplement & we are here. Proof positive alone.

People say we're omnivores like it's the middle of the road. It isn't. Have a look at the actual architecture. Domestic cat (obligate carnivore): - Stomach pH: 1-2 - Intestinal length: 4x body length - No salivary amylase. Zero. - Bile concentrated for fat digestion - Uricase absent: uric acid excreted directly, evolved for high-protein waste Pig (true omnivore): - Stomach pH: 2-4 - Intestinal length: 14x body length: built to ferment plant material - Salivary amylase: present and high - Significant cecum for fibre fermentation - Functionally built to process grain and root vegetables Cow (obligate herbivore): - Stomach pH: 6-7 in rumen - Four-chambered stomach system - Intestinal length: 20x body length - Produces cellulase via rumen microorganisms - Spends 8 hours per day chewing cud You: - Stomach pH: 1.5-2. Carnivore-class. - Intestinal length: 5x body length. Short. Rapid-transit. - Salivary amylase: present, but modest - Virtually no cecum. No cellulase. No meaningful fibre fermentation. - Bile optimised for fat digestion You are not in the middle. You are sitting, biochemically, next to the cat. The pig is the omnivore. You are a facultative carnivore who can tolerate starch in a pinch. There's a difference.

The filipinos get all their skin care products from Korea. The South Koreans are nuts about porcelain-white skin. You want to see real vitD deficiency? That probably includes half of everyone living in east and south Asia. Every muslim woman who has to cover up when leaving their home, will be sun-deprived. We're easily talking over a billion and a half people in Asia alone.

@thoughts50705 @the_no_mind Although they do use bleach in their skin products.

The two largest vitamin D supplement trials in history found zero benefit. VITAL — 25,000 participants. ViDA — 5,000 participants. No benefit for blood pressure, heart disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes, or COVID. No effect on mortality. A 2022 New England Journal of Medicine editorial: "In view of this wealth of data, the general population should stop taking vitamin D supplements." Yet the vitamin D industry is booming. Why? Because vitamin D isn't the mechanism. It's a biomarker of sunlight exposure. Yes, high serum vitamin D is associated with many health benefits — but placebo-controlled trials on vitamin D supplements consistently yield discouraging results. People with higher serum vitamin D levels are healthier not because they've taken a vitamin D pill, but because of the sunlight that produced it. Supplementing the marker doesn't replicate the cause. Taking vitamin D pills is like photoshopping your bank balance to look like a millionaire while being in debt.

Get your facts straight please. There is a big difference between "industrially pressed seed oil in clear plastic bottle" and "cold pressed seed oil in glass bottle". the issue is Linoleic acid, got it? doesnt' matter how you press it, it's prone to oxidation and seed oils have them in spades, some more than others

@thoughts50705 @ScottAppliedSci @SamaHoole If I gave the impression that I was offended, my bad. I am bothered by misinformation, like literally any seed oil hate, but not offended. Anyway the point I was making was that seed oils are needlessly demonized, since we’ve been consuming them since the dawn of civilization.

We’re not meant to be herbivores - we’re omnivores. That’s why mixed diets are a good choice. Diet extremes are just for business and/or ideology.

You're clearly not reading or absorbing anything that is posted to futher the discussion and educate. 1) butter is mostly fully saturated fat. saturated fats can not oxidize, that's why coconut oil (nor butter) actually don't need refrigeration 2) milk powder is protein minus the fat. it's essentially a protein powder 3) seed oils are factory-made, partially oxidized when bottled, never bottled in dark glass bottles, and full of linoleic acid, 20-60% which take 6-7 years to clear from your system 4) bacon fat or "lard" from forage-fed animals is fine bacon fat or lard from grain-fed animals will have the fatty acid profile of the soy/corn feed, as much as 30-50% linoleic acid. again, fry your bacon and drain away the liquid oils, which are mostly linoleic acid 5) beef is a ruminant animal, and ruminant fat is only 2-3% linoleic acid, so you beef fat is the healthiest. H&V, you should stop, pause, and try to absorb the science that is being typed in your direction. I'm not sure what science you're advocating. I never claimed that bacon or lard at every meal was healthy (but it would be if the pig was forage fed), and you're the vegan. Rather than typing, try to absorb the hard-won science up above. Personally, I don't care if you're a carnivore or vegan, what I'm saying is over the long-term, linoleic acid IS a problem, cold-pressed, fried or not. Makes no difference to me, but there are far better choices of what oils to put into my body. You can delude yourself that your vegan cold-pressed oil is so good for you, but by filling your body with linoleic acid, you'll reap the regret in 10-20 years time.

@thoughts50705 @ScottAppliedSci @SamaHoole Alright thanks for confirming what I already said. The issue isn’t actually seed oils, but the quantity in which our capitalist food companies are putting them in packaged food. The same happens with dairy, eggs, and even meat. The same happens with grains and sugar as well.

Complete poppycock. I wouldn't touch a linoleic-rich oil regardless of where it came from. Olive oil contains enough of it already (10-20%). You're an absolute loon to equate "seed oil zealotry" with "xenophobia". What kind of "science" are you basing that on? Linoleic acid is the culprit, cold-pressed or not. Know your fatty acids. Saturated fats are the safest and most resistant to oxidation, that's why they can be left out at room temperature. If you're a vegan, then you should be using coconut oil, it's cheap, healthy and delicious.

@thoughts50705 @ScottAppliedSci @SamaHoole Seed oil zealotry is carefully disguised xenophobia. Certain seed oils come from the orient and Middle East, and we’re living in a time of major Asian and MENA hatred. You’ll criticize the abundance of foreign ingredients, but not the European and American ones.

I have some salted butter here. its ingredients are Cream (milk) and Salt. That's it, so not sure what additives you are referring to. Instead of throwing milk out that doesnt sell, Milk powder is simply fresh milk with the water removed through pasteurization, evaporation, and spray-drying. It contains the same natural components as liquid milk, just concentrated. Whole milk powder has shorter shelf life due to fat oxidation. In India, careful — many popular brands add sugar or vegetable fat. So look for plain “Milk Powder” without extra ingredients. You would be far healthier cooking with coconut oil, that any of your fancy cold-pressed oils. Saturated fats are resistant to oxidation. PUFA-rich oils are prone to oxidation and will spend the next 6-7 years in your cell and mitochondrial membranes---no thanks.

@thoughts50705 @ScottAppliedSci @SamaHoole Third, again this is more xenophobia, because I’m not seeing any of you people demonize butter or milk powder, which are much worse additives than any seed oil. I’m even seeing people try to claim that bacon and lard at every meal is healthy now, like science doesn’t matter

Clearly, you are not understanding the true dangers of linoleic acid. All seed oils are industrially processed. Any cold-pressed oil will still be heavy in linoleic acid, some more than others. If it's more than 2% of your caloric intake, then it's a problem, cold-pressed or not. That's the entire point. Frying food is only one part of the problem. Linoleic acid is highly oxidative, whether you swallow it out of the bottom or use cold prep. Not sure how solid your science background if your reply is, "using them in cold methods **should be fine**". You go girl, keep swallowing them cold-pressed oils and hope they don't oxidize in your system the next 6-7 years.

@thoughts50705 @ScottAppliedSci @SamaHoole So first of all, then stop demonizing seed oils and be specific. Canola oil and heirloom rapeseed are not any more the same than corn and teosinte grass are. Second, you confirmed what I said, that frying food is the problem. Using them in cold prep methods should be fine.

@arunkumar3112 @RealRajkr Arun, so what would you consider a reasonable intake requirement for a 80kg male? how many IU would one want to have for adequate vs optimal health?

@RealRajkr Sunexposure and supplements

Your body makes vitamin D from sunlight, but diet is an important source, too. Vitamin D is primarily found in animal foods, such as eggs. A large egg contains about 1.1 micrograms (44 international units (IU) of vitamin D).  While eggs provide some vitamin D, they are far from the richest source. Fatty fish are among the best dietary sources of vitamin D you can eat, offering significantly higher amounts than eggs. Sardines, Salmons and Mackerels are rich source of vitamin D.

@Rakeshsingh800 @arunkumar3112 Small oily fish with Omega 3 and vitamin D eat cold water algae, nowhere near India or the tropics. The Omega 3 comes from the algae that the fishes eat.

@arunkumar3112 These fishes not available in market. Do rohu , katla offer vit d and Omega fatty acid

@RealRajkr @arunkumar3112 Supplements. Food can not provide any vitamin D in any quantity.

@arunkumar3112 Vegetarian has some option ?

Rapeseed oil IS canola oil. Of the oils you list, only Soybean (and corn) are considered seed oils, and produced in large quantities in the USA. Many people make great hay over the industrial processing to make "seed oils", and that the linoleic acids are already rancid or oxidized by the time they are bottled. Deep fryers in north america and Phillipines make near-exclusive use of canola oil, and after several days of use are essentially poison to the body. Cold-pressed or not, the key from a biochemical perspective is, any PUFA is highly-reactive due to having two double bonds. In my mind, "cold-pressed" is like "smoke-point", it is a selling point to justify buying something that ...you may regret putting in your body. Cold-pressed or industrially processed, if you understand chemistry, the problem with an omega6 oil is that once ingested it takes 6-7 years to leave, and during that time they are highly prone to oxidation, unless you are swallowing vitamin E like crazy to act as an antioxidant. Carbs and proteins are in & out of your body in a day. Oils and fatty acids take 6-7 years to leave your body. Linoleic oil should only make up 1-2% of your caloric intake. I don't care if it's cold pressed or not, it is chemically unstable and leads to inflammation and accelerated aging, as you age. Overconsumption of linoleic acid is a leading scourge of the modern food system. I take Nigella oil caps, Omega3 oil, cod liver oil and a shot of EVolive oil each day, but don't need any more linoleic acid in my system, cold-pressed, seed oil, or deep fried. I would much rather have plain coconut oil or ghee.

@thoughts50705 @ScottAppliedSci @SamaHoole Are you saying that rapeseed, sesame, walnut, nigella, soybean, and peanut oils are not included in the seed oil demonization? Why not modify the seed oil hate to just canola? Or rather, specifically industrialized canola, since cold-pressed canola apparently is fine?

Not quite sure what you are talking about. North america is dominated by canola seed crop from the Canadian prairies. Ukraine supplied most of Europe, Africa and Asia with sunflower oil, another "seed oil". At the outbreak of the Russo-Ukraine war, canola oil from Canada was shipped for use in the UK and Europe due to extreme shortages of sunflower. Ukraine continues to supply the EU and UK. Asia and Africa now have other sources of their own seed oils for cooking. East asia has always used sesame seed oil for cooking. Not sure what you are prattling on about. Canola oil from Canada dominates the north american cooking oil market as the cost for shipping is the lowest. It has with anti-Asian sentiment.

Analogue sources of heat always emit radiation on either side of its intended spectrum. An incandescent light bulb does not emit UV, but emits a bunch of NIR and IR, which is why you feel heat from it even when blocked by a black cloth. The key benefit of the sauna is the entire interior of the sauna (and surround of a stone fireplace, or metal wood-burning stove) end up being emitters of near-infrared light, which is active biologically. The magic of a sauna, stone fireplace or sunlight isn't just the warmth or humidity, it is the Near infrared light at 810-850nm that penetrates into the depth of the body from all directions. The action is one of photobiomodulation.

@thoughts50705 @robertlufkinmd Since when does heat project infrared light ?

As a medical school professor, I never once prescribed "sit in a hot room" as medicine. But the data says I should have. A 15-year study of 1,688 men and women found that sauna bathing 4-7 times per week cut cardiovascular death by 70%. Key findings: -- 2-3 sessions/week: 29% lower CVD mortality -- 4-7 sessions/week: 70% lower CVD mortality -- Dose-response was linear with no threshold -- 45+ minutes per week gave the strongest protection The mechanisms map directly to metabolic health: -- Heat shock proteins rose 45% -- Mitochondrial function improved 28% -- Blood pressure dropped significantly -- Arterial stiffness decreased Your body responds to heat stress the same way it responds to exercise -- by upgrading its metabolic machinery from the inside out. Full breakdown coming on the Health Longevity Secrets podcast. #SaunaTherapy #CardiovascularHealth #Longevity #MetabolicHealth #Healthspan Source: pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC62…

I encourage people to start with moving from three meals to two, or staying at three meals but only having carbs with one meal out of the three. That alone is an easier transition, and cuts out half the carbs consumed each week. From that, some days can be zero carb, low carb or carbs! with one meal. This transition makes things easy over a period of a few months.

You can be 80% carnivore and change your life. You can eat meat and dairy Monday to Friday and feel better than you have in years. You can have a piece of birthday cake at your nephew's party and it changes nothing. You can go on holiday, eat the local food, enjoy it, and come back to eating beef without the holiday counting as a failure. You can be a work in progress. You are allowed to be a work in progress. The person who eats well 80% of the time and sustains it for five years is healthier than the person who eats perfectly for three weeks, falls off, and spends the next year feeling like a failure. Consistency over time beats intensity over weeks. Buy the mince. Cook it in butter. Add more butter. Do this most days. The rest can figure itself out.

Andrew, then answer me this: "If you could wave your magic wand, what percentage of your family's diet would you want for linoleic acid intake to consist of?" Your above comment, "But I see you’re talking about seed oils etc. so you’ve likely crossed the dietary event horizon."

Who mentioned POLITICS? 🤣 You’re the worst kind of x debater - one clever enough to discuss points in some detail but too caught up in an ancestral magic diets mindset to see your own errors. Your main points are simply wrong. But you are incapable of seeing the errors - not intellectually, emotionally.

Seed oils, specifically linoleic acid (LA) Omega 6, exist in nature and ancestrally made up 1-2% of the human diet. We don't fabricate LA because our body temperature (98F) is too high to make such chemically fragile fatty acids. This is the exact reason why mammals, coconut and palm oil is mostly saturated---it's warm at the tropics where the average temperature is always 80F or higher, year-round. Linoleic acid is essentially "antifreeze" for plants that grow where it freezes, as it remains fluid even below freezing. However, it is this very feature that makes it harmful for mammals to consume in quantity as we are WARM-BLOODED with internal temperatures of 98F. Do you want to know what is ideal for humans? Check out the LA composition of coconut (1-2%) or palm (10-11%) oil. If the coconut tree and our past diet is 1-2% LA, then that's a pretty good reason why we should be concerned about excessive seed oils in the diet, fried or not. Seed oils deserve demonization because without effort, they can easily make up 5-20% of your diet, and in doing so this drives long-term inflammation, and tissue oxidation. The concern isn't fried foods, it's that it is ancestrally inappropriate for all mammals. And, i just checked, reptiles are cold-blooded, and have LA content of 11-21%, presumably to give them better survival at cold temperatures before they "freeze up".

Saturated fat (preferably) is consumed to provide energy, with the least insulin rise and the lowest oxidation potential. I don't go out of my way for dairy, but if I do, I avoid "low fat" varieties to get "more C15:0". Our bodies need protein, fatty acids, and energy, and don't need carbs. Asking "why eat any fat if your liver can make it" is the epitome of stupidity. Your liver can make non-essential fats from essential fats, but you still needs fats for energy and your liver needs dietary fats as the building blocks for fatty-acid modification at the liver. My summer job in the 90s was processing canola seed and sending it to Asia, before it was even a thing, but I'll keep my intake to an ancestral level: 1-2 percent of dietary intake, and focus on getting enough Omega 3s. Again, it shouldn't be a POLITICAL thing to warn people of the dangers of excess "seed oils", and point out the benefits of EPA and DHA Omega3 fatty acids. They are everywhere, nowadays in the food system.

Your liver can also provide all the saturated fat you need, so why consume any? (No pentadecanoic acid quip, please). This mindset is limiting you. Eat like a normal human and you will be well. But I see you’re talking about seed oils etc. so you’ve likely crossed the dietary event horizon.