RedDrift

4.8K posts

RedDrift

RedDrift

@ReddDrift

เข้าร่วม Kasım 2015
120 กำลังติดตาม142 ผู้ติดตาม
RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@engineofgod @sanjehorah If someone was helping them do it, that can be classed as immoral under your framework but them choosing and doing it themself results in a bad decision not an immoral one I am not saying it IS moral but people often cant explain their beliefs because its actually just a feeling
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@engineofgod @sanjehorah A bad decision is not an immoral one. Your arguements are correct, but they dont answer the question about morality. People have a visceral reaction that it is immoral but are unable to explain why. Immoral means going against the moral or ethical standards laid out by society
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@runarorama At the individual level yes, but the whole point is you dont know what others press and its unreasonable to assume a perfect 100% vote. This uncertainty drives people to pick blue to try to turn uncertainty into certainty. Thats not the same as removing the penalty.
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Rúnar
Rúnar@runarorama·
The interesting thing about this red/blue malarkey is that it presents a volunteer's dilemma/assurance game-looking setup, minus any upside. In a true assurance game, cooperation gives everyone some benefit. Here, enough blue presses only remove the penalty that the pressing itself created.
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@dioscuri Two layers of uncertainty makes it pointless, why I don't have any problem dying I am not going to pick it for no reason, and not knowing what I am fighting for means I cannot reasonably determine if it is worth it. In which case, I am always going red.
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Henry Shevlin
Henry Shevlin@dioscuri·
Red/blue button variant: Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If the percentage of people who press blue exceeds an UNKNOWN THRESHOLD, everyone survives. Otherwise, only people who pressed red survive. Which button do you press?
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@IXianVernius The point is less that all parents will pick blue, but that there is extremely high likelyhood some will, among other types that want to protect those around in uncertainty. Thats why it is a play on risk of your life or society at large.
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The IXian🥃🧭
The IXian🥃🧭@IXianVernius·
I know most of you, my dear followers, are more than sick of this discourse, but I'm sorry. I can't not bring this one up too. The incessantness with which this specific argument is invoked is the one detail that actually just confuses me. Like, are they so deep into the characterization of red as just edgy teenagers that they can't possibly imagine a parent that opposes them? Whatever kind of person they think reds are, is it really so hard to imagine that kind of person aging, having children and not changing? Because I assure you, I told my actual, not a hypothetical person, mom about this shit (actually talking to your parents about things. Imagine that.), and her response was, "Well, that sounds stupid. Red obviously."
The IXian🥃🧭 tweet media
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@bitcloud Dude... Its ongoing, thats the point. There is no number. Might want to have a read on what actually happens, I dont care if you are for or against, but at least be educated on what actually goes on.
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@bitcloud You asked the precise protein dosage. I gave the exact weighted dosage of the active spike protein compound a specific mRNA vaccine uses in each dose. I even gave you an approximate count of how many individual protein molecules are in the dosage. So I need some elaboration.
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@bitcloud Or, this many individual protein molecules: 3.7241067e+13
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@bitcloud Its pretty easy to find. I think it is just no one is respinding to you. I will give you the answer, here is a monograph for a recent Moderna COVID-19 MRNA vaccine: ebs.tga.gov.au/servlet/xmlmil… The answer? 10 micrograms in 0.2ml of solution. Done, solved it for you.
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@wil_da_beast630 ANYONE no matter what group, claiming to be 'the most ethical or moral people' are 100% speaking BS. Left, Right, Muslim, Christian, American, Chinese, whatever... If morals are not objectively real, you cant claim a 'solid case' for being the MOST at a subjective thing.
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@DellAnnaLuca @bratricek I will explain it for you. A mother will vote blue for the same reason you vote red, she cant read minds. Most mothers value their children's lives over themselves, hence the same reasoning but pressing blue instead or red. You having to ask, is demonstrating that disconnect.
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Luca Dellanna
Luca Dellanna@DellAnnaLuca·
You don't get it. It's precisely because I cannot read other people's minds with 100% accuracy that, for most people, red is the best choice. Voting blue would require absolute confidence that at least 50% of people would vote blue, too. I'm not arrogant enough to pretend I have this certainty.
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Ondřej Tesárek
Ondřej Tesárek@bratricek·
> your parents 📘are probably voting blue because they have no idea how you will vote and want you to survive eve if they should die > your kids are voting probably randomly, my kids cant understand the math, so they will just press 🟥📘 > your wife is voting 📘to ensure survival of your kids, her parents and yours game theory is not applied on families and civilisations, its applied to a bunch of random individual dudes in a fucking prison with zero relationship and zero value in survival of others, it assumes that your survival is the most precious outcome most of the population are parents we are not animals by pressing 🟥you increase a probability of 📘dying by +1/x% during history, after such events (mobilisation, religious disputes, uprisings etc), blues📘 mostly persecuted 🟥for desertion and build institutions to prevent 🟥from reaching to power i fucking love this whole discussion, because I was instinctively in the red🟥, then switched sides
Luca Dellanna@DellAnnaLuca

People are posting the results of a 58/42 poll as evidence most people would choose blue. But once we factor in that people act differently when their life is actually on the line, that’s for me evidence that red is the choice that maximizes lives saved.

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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@stevehou But you can also reverse it, choosing red pushes the world one step closer to killing all blue voters and because people are not perfect, there will be plenty of blue voters. I am not arguing against red. But the consequences of garuanteed life is, pushing for garuanteed death.
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Steve Hou
Steve Hou@stevehou·
Strictly dominated option won the poll. Red strictly dominates blue bc if fewer than 50% chose blue, those that chose red survive anyway but those that chose blue would die. If you presumed voters are “rational” as in they thought this through, you’d conclude altruism. In reality, this is “bounded rationality” as most people likely didn’t think through the implications and chose the feel good option without knowing they had taken on hypothetical lethal risks.
Steve Hou tweet media
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@engineofgod @sanjehorah And the chronically ill, the braindead, or those with terminal cancer? Imposing your ideal that they should keep living when suffering is not a great argument for it being immoral. Not smart? Probably, immoral? Not really. Otherwise based on that any logical flaw is immoral.
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engineofgod
engineofgod@engineofgod·
@ReddDrift @sanjehorah Because it's logically flawed, it assumes nothing will change about your dire situation in life and that is unknowable. It's unknowable because if you have free will the future is unknowable and we can only guess at what the future might be.
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@prerat People pretend to be logical but if you change your answer based on phrasing, you are either doing so because more chose the option or because you weight that phrasing different. If you are rational you pick the same unless your reasoning is dependent on what others will press.
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prerat
prerat@prerat·
it was interesting that the comments for both of these were full of people saying "see everyone, this OBVIOUSLY clarifies the original problem!!!" not realizing the other poll with the opposite result existed too
prerat tweet media
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@Impish_Bunny I guess it depends on if everyone votes at once or if live feedback is provided
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ylareia
ylareia@Impish_Bunny·
i actually think it’s immoral for anyone to press the blue button because you are forcing everyone else into a situation where they have to take on risk of death to protect you from your own decision
Tim Urban@waitbutwhy

Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who pressed the red button survive. Which button would you press?

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Owl Z
Owl Z@OwlZphi·
@ReddDrift @mlonnroth @mhartl But guess what would happen if, in order to vote in elections, the voter had to face a 10 to 90% risk of death?
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@CennoCapital @ValiantLyon @MrDustyBowl @Amalgamyte_VT But I would like to say, I am in the minority. When people frame it like that, most people now understand that you are basically signing up for death unless half the population signs up as well. But I am picking not for that. I don't care about the death, so may as well help blue
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RedDrift
RedDrift@ReddDrift·
@CennoCapital @ValiantLyon @MrDustyBowl @Amalgamyte_VT The actual delimma does not change. Some people will pick blue and (if there is no interim suffering or at least not much), I will still pick it. And although the reframing will make far fewer people press blue, refer to the comment I shared above where I don't care
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Amalgamyte 🐺♨️
Amalgamyte 🐺♨️@Amalgamyte_VT·
Suicidal empathy. If everyone presses the blue button, everyone survives. Versus taking the chance that by pressing the red, you were the one that tipped the favor, and all the blue button pushers die. You would survive no matter what by pressing red, but would you be able to carry the guilt of mass murder for the rest of your life? Even if 1% of the global population pressed blue, that's still a lot of people dead, partially by your own hand
vittorio@IterIntellectus

why would anyone even press blue?!?

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ค้นพบ

@engineofgod @sanjehorah @runarorama @dioscuri @IXianVernius @bitcloud @wil_da_beast630 @elonmusk