Orthomaton ☦️

@TomBruns2025 @PaulinusOfTrier I don't believe that Muslims worship the same God. The Moscow Theological Academy recently determined that that would be heresy. The Roman Catholic magisterium has determined, however, that Roman Catholics worship the same God as Muslims do.

@orthomaton @PaulinusOfTrier You forgot the part about it has to be definitely held. Saying it is immoral to use air conditioning does not make it so. Likewise, you may worship the same god as Muslims, but I worship the one true God, the Trinity.

As an anglo catholic teenager, I used to go to Christian Fellowship meetings. All the others were either low church or very low church. Catholics unwelcome. From time to time someone would make a stab at Catholics along the lines of "they think every word the Pope says is infallible". I would roll my eyes and usually several of the better informed people would say "not quite, only if he's speaking ex-Cathedra". My assumption was that this absurd caricature existed only among very low church Protestants. So imagine my surprise when, after my conversion, and especially after the election of Pope Francis, I discovered that millions of Catholics have also bought into this laughable idea.

@TomBruns2025 @PaulinusOfTrier “Faith & morals”. You decide where you think the line is drawn. It’s your eternity.

@PaulinusOfTrier @orthomaton Among other “magisterial” comments I now understand we have to obey the UN and air conditioning is evil.

@PaulinusOfTrier @MatchlessMine That’s fine - and there is a line. People should stop saying “ex cathedra” because it’s a defensive straw man. Ex cathedra isn’t required for a layperson to be obliged to do believe.

@orthomaton @MatchlessMine Yes, but « magisterium » doesn’t mean every foolish idea popping out of the papal mouth

@MatchlessMine @PaulinusOfTrier The CCC, and documents like Lumen Gentium state as much. Catholic faithful are obliged to give religious submission of intellect and will to their magisterium. Ex Cathedra is a handy red-herring.

@PaulinusOfTrier I’m not surprised. Poorly catechized, drenched in popular culture mythology.

@writeontheedg3 @LizzyHock1963 Infant baptism has existed since the founding of the church, and not because those infants were thought to bear any personal responsibility.

@LizzyHock1963 Right, I agree. But many Christians after Augustine believe in “inherited guilt” - especially the Reformed circles. This is part of why we have child baptism.

Something just dawned on me regarding ”inherited guilt” of Adam to all the human race. If someone is actually seen as guilty of Adam’s sin at birth, by nature of their humanity, through no fault of their own, then they can’t be forgiven of that, technically. Adam has to be the one to be forgiven. Or the chain remains intact forever. So, how does someone who believes in this reality see forgiveness, as it connects to that particular portion of their “guilt” - and remember God forgave over and over in the OT. How did God promise Israel to “remember their sins no more” if Adam’s sin was stuck like glue to their genome? Make it make sense…

@a_farmboy @SincereHyp44120 @tovi_lord I must block you now for being dishonest and vile.

@orthomaton @SincereHyp44120 @tovi_lord So you’re talking about the longer clip. That’s fine, Fr SDY is still being belligerent here, and it doesn’t recontextualize the shorter clip in a way that makes it more acceptable or the argument about authority less irrelevant. It’s a pattern for SDY.

Fr SDY is spiritually neo-Calvinist, as are many EO converts.

@a_farmboy @SincereHyp44120 @tovi_lord You mean to tell me you've launched on this tirade without having even watched the source material?

@orthomaton @SincereHyp44120 @tovi_lord Dositheus isn’t mentioned in the clip of the OP. Are you talking about the longer clip?

I don’t think you watched the entire interaction. The caller declined to cite a single living bishop when arguing what the Orthodox church teaches. Instead he appeals to Dositheus. Dositheus says that lay people aren’t permitted to teach, and aren’t even allowed to read scripture without supervision. Fr SDY simply used the caller’s own standard against him. Then it turns out he’s not even Orthodox, so the caller is even less entitled to an opinion. He could cite a living bishop - instead he clings to Dositheus. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

@Alex_Ortodoxie Of course not... but yours is. You're appealing to his authority as an EO priest as if I would find it unimpeachable, which is ridiculous. If he was a rude guest, you can give him a swat. But that's not what SDY does. He says he's too beneath him to debate. Completely different.

If this was a Catholic priest talking to just about anybody, I would be thoroughly embarrassed for our side. You join a platform that is meant to debate & then refuse to debate on the grounds that your interlocuter is of too low a standing for you. This is anti-Christ.

Fr SDY’s argument was “what does the Orthodox church teach? Find me a single living bishop that affirms what you think the church teaches”. The caller appeals to Dositheus. Dositheus says lay people aren’t allowed to teach or even read scripture unsupervised. By the caller’s own standard, he is out of order. Then it turns out he’s not even Orthodox, so it’s farcical. Fr SDY simply shut the caller down using the caller’s own standard of argumentation.

@orthomaton @SincereHyp44120 @tovi_lord Closest thing to an insult is patronizing the dude throughout the rest of the conversation. In any case, the statement more accurate to my thoughts: It is just as easy to make an empirical argument about what was taught in the pre-schism church as it is to make some irrelevant

@zo_demalia Ipswich town

I am in need of a premier league team to root for Don’t wanna bandwagon to hard Open to suggestions

@FPLSportScience That’s not politics. 🤦‍♂️

The same people who say "keep politics out of football" when a player or pundits mentions any human rights issue.

@TheCHUGbug It's Orthodoxy gone wrong. Just go with Orthodoxy, which is catholicism before it went awry.

I want to know more about Catholicism, but I don't know what questions I should ask. I have one, although it may be personal for some; DM me if you want. Why are you Catholic?

@a_farmboy @SincereHyp44120 @tovi_lord where was the insult?

@SincereHyp44120 @tovi_lord @orthomaton Again, it is just as easy to insult someone as it is to actually make an argument. If Fr SDY is the superpower everyone regards him as, it should be light work, no matter how insolent the guest. (I’m only granting this for the sake of conversation, I think they’re all arrogant.)

@grok @USATrackAIPAC So is my critique super funny because it was a double joke? I simultaneously called him brainless and hinted that he was strawmaning. Geddit?

Classic Scarecrow reference! But the critique mixes up the apostolic era with later Church teaching. John's letters (and Paul's) corrected local issues while revelation was still unfolding and the faith was being clarified by inspired apostles. Orthodox councils affirm the Church's infallibility in defining dogma through the Holy Spirit's guidance to the whole Body—not that every congregation was flawless or free of pastoral problems. The early Church had its struggles while preserving the core deposit of faith.

If the Orthodox Church (Claiming the Body of Christ) was infallible, as their councils say, then John the Revelator wouldn't have written letters correcting the churches in the 1st century

@a_farmboy @SincereHyp44120 I’m simply telling you that you don’t understand because you don’t know what the Orthodox phronema is. Would it be less condescending if I played along as though you knew what you were talking about ?

@orthomaton @SincereHyp44120 Does it involve being incredibly condescending and neglecting to address the questions/objections being presented? I was under the impression that the Orthodox phronema was a little more dignified than that, but I’m open to learning.

@a_farmboy @SincereHyp44120 You don’t understand what the Orthodox phronema is.

@SincereHyp44120 I’m saying his behavior is more in keeping with the neo-Calvinist cultural milieu than it is with the Orthodox phronema I hear so much about. I’m not saying anything about his doctrinal alignment.

@joshwhitlatch Enough *for what?* herein lies your problem. You don’t know what he died to achieve.

I will never understand those that say Christ sacrifice was enough, but you must do……..

@prncecarrington @TheGourdKing The Orthodox Church *is literally* the body of Christ. So you’re either in it or you aren’t. It’s clear cut.

@TheGourdKing He said “you’re not in the body of Christ” while simultaneously claiming to not know the individual status of a person. He talks out of both sides of his mouth because he’s a tribalist.

I’m done pretending these EO proponents are not utterly demonized Pharisees.