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sean f

@ratjp1

do you get me from the other side?

Aomori-shi, Aomori Beigetreten Kasım 2018
379 Folgt40 Follower
sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@SymplyTonbra if you all are watching shows just taking everything every character says (even the “good guys”) at face value you’ve got a problem. the second you notice a “plot hole” you should be thinking where the information comes from, why that character would’ve presented it that way, etc
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symplyTonbra
symplyTonbra@SymplyTonbra·
Can someone please explain this??? Why is she able to lightning bend without peace of mind???
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eli! 🐐
eli! 🐐@frozenpandaman·
@springbris except the chugoku region of japan is indeed called that in english
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G*rre
G*rre@springbris·
apply this concept to the Japanese names for countries, cities, regions etc and you realise how stupid of an argument this is. Yes I would probably pick up on that Chugoku means China but it’s not called Chugoku in English lol
Jackpot 🎰@JacquesPaught

@springbris I mean if you can hear the characters saying "Gekkouga" over and over and know exactly who they're referring to, it doesn't make much sense for the subtitles to have some nonsense localization that's blatantly not the word they're saying.

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Jackpot 🎰
Jackpot 🎰@JacquesPaught·
@springbris @ErrorofZ If I literally hear someone say the word "CUNNING" in English amidst Japanese, I'm going to be confused if the word "cunning" does not appear in the subtitles.
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G*rre
G*rre@springbris·
the only time i care about this is when i see clips of the pokemon anime where the subs have left the names of the POKEMON untranslated like you are not being serious here you’re just not
april 🔆🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️@gaypril_906

one example of performative behavior i've noticed for years is where when a piece of japanese media has a very widely used localized name in english some fans of it will insist on using the japanese name anyway for some reason. very "place, japan" vibes

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वसुधा🌾
वसुधा🌾@VandanaRuhela9·
Sanskrit is an extremely logical language, and its grammar is often compared to mathematical formulas, which makes it structured and precise. Another unique aspect of Sanskrit is that it is written exactly as it is spoken, with no silent letters or regional dialect differences.
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桜理
桜理@GutokuEijin·
@aerisatire @Kangz01 The way she pronounces 公演 as 声 and どんなふうに as donavunee is just perfect
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sullbae charts updates
sullbae charts updates@aerisatire·
this is the funniest fucking thread ive read all day IM CRYING 😭😭😭😭
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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@writerofscratch i’d say prioritizing it over anything else is going too far, but i think it’s just a bit of hyperbole to get the point across that you’ll save yourself some trouble in the long run if your long term goal is natural sounding speech
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Emily
Emily@writerofscratch·
Incredibly bad advice. Not only is concentrating on pitch accent over vocabulary and grammar a waste of time, but even when you speak Japanese like a native speaker you'll still get 日本語上手d depending on your ethnic appearance lol.
Squiggles@heisei_ramen

My tip to foreigners trying to scramble their way out of the 日本語上手^_^! trap is to go all in on pitch accent before even trying to grind vocabulary, etc. A perfect pitch accent with an N3 vocabulary sounds way more native than a walking dictionary with weird inflection.

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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@tao_yameburi 化学用語ではちゃんと分けてるよー
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たお
たお@tao_yameburi·
同じ単語に混合物と化合物の二つの意味あっちゃダメだろ
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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@noon_ta_noeta @sccarlson okay, so you think the skopos is foolish, but clearly she and others think it’s a worthwhile project. but at the very least you critique it with that in mind! better than the droves of people acting like she just made huge simplifications for no reason.
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untimely ἐξηγητής
@sccarlson if the skopos is foolish, what's its use? i can plan on doing a line-by-line translation of Homer into old english alliterative verse, but this would be retarded
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Stephen C. Carlson
Stephen C. Carlson@sccarlson·
The iambic pentameter and, for the Odyssey, the same line count are part of Wilson’s translation skopos. Criticisms that ignore this are incompetent. While her skopos means a lot won’t get translated or get translated super precisely, it does mean that her Odyssey is well paced.
Giles Goat-Girl@nadienadianadie

these people never comment on wilson's decision to stick to iambic pentameter and the same number of lines as the original. several criticisms they peddle can be explained by this.

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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@BartlettFred @JosephPConlon pardon my ignorance, but is iambic pentameter not usually 10 syllables per line? an iamb being a single metrical foot composed of an unstressed and then a stressed syllable?
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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@OnlyNakedTruth @OPRisely @machine___angel the same amount of time has passed. sanskrit preserves many features of PIE that others don’t, but has lost some features that others haven’t. that doesn’t mean english or japanese derive the root from sanskrit- they all derive it from PIE.
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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@agameganon also reveals their lack of imagination. when the context and other epithets speak to Odysseus’ smarts, why do we have to assume Wilson intends “lying” to be read (only) negatively? he’s praised for it over and over again.
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King of Megcenae
King of Megcenae@agameganon·
it’s strange how one component of reactionary backlash against Wilson’s translation is that they view her language choices (‘complicated’, ‘lying Odysseus’) as serious denigration of his character because if they knew how the Classical tragedians portrayed him they would implode
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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@OnlyNakedTruth @OPRisely @machine___angel you clearly aren’t comprehending OP’s post. all they’re saying is that both English and Japanese share the same root for this word. the same is true of Sanskrit. The language the root comes from is older than both Sanskrit and English, and is the ancestor of both languages.
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CBG San
CBG San@OnlyNakedTruth·
@OPRisely @ratjp1 @machine___angel No I would say that geographically Indian sub continent is closer to Japan with trade and cultural relationship going back centuries. So it would be far more normal to assume linguistic relationship than with faraway England. Thank you
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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@OnlyNakedTruth @machine___angel let me guess, you think Sanskrit is the “oldest language in the world”. where do you think madhu came from? it’s the same proto-indo-european root
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CBG San
CBG San@OnlyNakedTruth·
@machine___angel Lol. No. It comes from Sanskrit origin “Madhu” which means honey.
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Merriam-Webster
Merriam-Webster@MerriamWebster·
You may have noticed that the word for ‘night’ in many languages appears to be that language’s word for ‘eight’ with an ‘N' in front of it. English: N + eight = Night German: N + acht = Nacht French: N + huit = Nuit Spanish: N + ocho = Noche Italian: N + otto = Notte Portuguese: N + oito = Noite ⬇️
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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@mardmertmort @JihadalHaqq they are distinct from each other in chinese, so the romanization aims to capture the distinction, not pander to english speakers.
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Mert
Mert@mardmertmort·
@JihadalHaqq But still, what is the justification for making it x? Sh certainly sounds way closer to the sound than x, so it would objectively be better
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sean f
sean f@ratjp1·
@DiegoNicucs @Th_Angelopoulos i’ve said you can disagree with her. it’s your first claim that the limitations she imposed on her work would be those of one who “doesn’t understand Homeric Greek” that I took issue with. she’s AN expert who made a well-reasoned choice. the choice itself you can disagree with.
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Diego Nicucs
Diego Nicucs@DiegoNicucs·
@ratjp1 @Th_Angelopoulos A highly educated classicist who made a terrible choice, yes. Do you think the criticism stems from ignorance? Think what you want. I stated my point of view and gave my reasons If your attitude is "she's the expert, therefore must be right," go ahead
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Thanos Angelopoulos
Thanos Angelopoulos@Th_Angelopoulos·
For everyone who thinks Wilson's “complicated” for Odysseus is bad; here are the opening 10 lines. One rule: translate every highlighted word with a single English word. No phrases. And keep the meter. Off you go. Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ Tell me, Muse, of the manyspun* man, who wandered very much πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν· after he sacked the sacred ptoliethron (πτολίεθρον; Homer's own poetic coinage for "city-stronghold"; neither polis nor modern πόλη nor the Latin-borrowed κάστρο Greeks say today; already archaic within antiquity) of Troy. πολλῶν δ᾿ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα καὶ νόον ἔγνω, He saw the astea (ἄστεα; not merely "cities" but civilised worlds, each with its own order and customs; you are an outsider observing a whole way of life) of many men, and came to know their noon (νόον; mind, character, intention, disposition, the particular way a people think; "mindset" is too corporate, "soul" too religious, "intelligence" too narrow). πολλὰ δ᾿ ὅ γ᾿ ἐν πόντῳ πάθεν ἄλγεα ὃν κατὰ θυμόν, And on the sea he suffered many algea (ἄλγεα; pains and griefs, physical and emotional simultaneously; Greek does not separate the aching body from the aching spirit) in his thumos (θυμόν; the warm beating centre of a person: courage, rage, desire, grief, and thought all housed together; Homeric man does not think separately from feeling; no Cartesian split here). ἀρνύμενος ἥν τε ψυχὴν καὶ νόστον ἑταίρων. striving to secure his own psychē (ψυχή; not yet the immortal soul of philosophy or Christianity, but breath-life, the thing that leaves through the mouth at death; to "save one's psychē" is simply to stay alive) and the nostos (νόστον; homecoming, but carrying the full weight of heroic longing, identity, and restoration; it gives us nostalgia, yet Homer's nostos is not sentiment, it is a warrior's existential purpose) of his companions. ἀλλ᾿ οὐδ᾿ ὣς ἑτάρους ἐρρύσατο, ἱέμενός περ· But not even so did he save his companions, though he was iemenos (ἱέμενός; not merely "eager" or "trying"; this word carries longing in the bones, a striving that is almost physical yearning; he did not just attempt to save them, he ached to). αὐτῶν γὰρ σφετέρῃσιν ἀτασθαλίῃσιν ὄλοντο, for they perished by their own atasthaliēsin (ἀτασθαλίῃσιν; reckless arrogance, moral blindness, the folly of those who know better and do it anyway; closer to hubris than stupidity, more self-destructive than either) νήπιοι, οἳ κατὰ βοῦς Ὑπερίονος Ἠελίοιο the nēpioi (νήπιοι; literally "not-yet-speaking," i.e. infants; used of adults it is contemptuous and pitying at once: children in the face of reality), who devoured the cattle of Helios Hyperion (the Sun as a living, watching, divine presence, not a star; an entity who notices and avenges) ἤσθιον· αὐτὰρ ὁ τοῖσιν ἀφείλετο νόστιμον ἦμαρ. and he stripped from them the νόστιμον ἦμαρ (νόστιμον ἦμαρ, literally "the nostos-day," the day of return; νόστιμον here is nostos as adjective, pressing the full weight of homecoming, longing, and identity onto a single day; "day of return" is the best English can do, and it is not enough). τῶν ἁμόθεν γε, θεά, θύγατερ Διός, εἰπὲ καὶ ἡμῖν. Of these things, goddess, daughter of Zeus; speak to us also, beginning from wherever you will.
Thanos Angelopoulos@Th_Angelopoulos

Roman Helmet Guy is a moron. Here's why: The word is a compound adjective formed by the prefix poly- (from polys, meaning “many”, “multiple”, or “great in number”) + the noun tropos + the adjectival ending -os. Tropos itself derives from the verb trepō (τρέπω), “to turn, to twist, to change direction”. Its IE root trep- carries the core sense of “turning” or “bending”. In Greek, tropos literally means “a turn”, “a twist”, “a way”, “a direction”, or “a path”, and only secondarily “manner”, “character”, “method” or “habit”. Thus the literal etymological force of polytropos is “having many turns” or “of many twistings/ways” aka a single word that fuses multiplicity (poly-) with the idea of deviation, adaptation, and change (tropos). It is not a simple descriptor; it encodes the notion of something that constantly “turns” or “shifts”, whether geographically or mentally. Per the standard reference Liddell-Scott-Jones Greek-English Lexicon, the word carries two intertwined layers of meaning:Literal / physical: “much-turned”, “much-wandering”, “much-traveled”, “roaming widely”. This is precisely how Odysseus is understood in Odyssey 1.1 (“ἄνδρα … πολύτροπον”) and again at 10.330 (Circe addressing him). Metaphorical / characterological: “versatile”, “of many devices”, “resourceful”, “wily”, “shifty”, “adaptable”. Examples: Hermes (Homeric Hymn to Hermes), Plato (Hippias Minor 364e–365a, where he contrasts the “polytropos” Odysseus with the “simple” Achilles), Thucydides (versatility of mind), Plutarch (on Alcibiades). Later texts can shade into “fickle” or “changeable”. The adverb polytropōs simply means “in many ways” or “variously”. In Modern Greek the word survives as a learned term meaning “resourceful,” “inventive,” “intricate,” or “complicated”, with the same double edge. Homer places polytropos in the very first line of the Odyssey (“Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον…”) precisely because the word is deliberately ambiguous. It invites a double reading that no single English adjective can fully replicate: Literal: the hero who has literally “turned” through countless places; Trojan War, stormy seas, islands, underworld, back to Ithaca. Metaphorical: the hero whose mind and character are full of twists; cunning, shape-shifting, never straightforward, endlessly adaptive. This is not accidental. Homer is announcing a new kind of hero: not the straight-line, uncomplicated warrior (Achilles, “the simplest and most truthful”, in Plato’s words), but the multifaceted, many-layered, non-linear survivor. Polytropos is the ancient Greek way of saying “complicated man”. Emily Wilson’s choice of “complicated” is therefore not a simplification or a betrayal of the Greek; it is a defensible modern English rendering that captures the core etymological and conceptual force of the word. “Complicated” preserves the sense of “many turns”, “not straightforward”, “full of twists”; both in Odysseus’s journey and in his character, while remaining immediately intelligible to contemporary readers. English simply has no single native word that packs the same literal + metaphorical punch as the Greek compound. “Man of many ways,” “versatile,” “wily,” or “of many devices” all require footnotes or sound archaic; “complicated” does the job cleanly. They attack Wilson for choosing “complicated”. Who? Peoople who do not read ancient Greek (and certainly not fluently). They are reacting to a surface-level English word without grasping the layered ambiguity Homer himself built into polytropos. Someone who cannot read the original line, who has never parsed the etymology of tropos, and who has never seen how later Greek authors exploited the same double meaning is simply not in a position to lecture a professional classicist on what the Greek “really” means. Wilson did a good translation. She's is genuinely a good scholar. They, on the other hand, are ποικιλοτρόπως, πολυτρόπως, παντοτρόπως, διαρκώς, και εντελώς αμετατρόπως ηλίθιοι.

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