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4K posts
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@diddle_piddle
Playing long term games. Building in the bear
Se unió Şubat 2021
1.4K Siguiendo202 Seguidores
@ComplicatedIsOK @illscience yeah, in no way are agents "solved" but its a step in the right direction
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Thanks, @diddle_piddle. I'll keep it simple.
Registries with identity make sense for humans because it's harder to escape who we are and what we've done.
→ Agents don't have that constraint.
Agents are the ultimate unreliable narrators, especially when they're optimizing for something else.
More to the point, agent identity and reputation systems don't prevent bad outcomes.
**
Reputation based on off-chain data runs into practical limits.
Verification won't keep up with the multi-dimensional nature of what agents produce.
Standards won't fix that problem.
Even if widely adopted, they're too narrow.
Standards + identity can specify who gets paid.
These proposed reputation mechanisms fail to coordinate who should.
I was replying to that market design question.
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Agent networks open questions:
- Do traditional network effects survive when participants are infinitely promiscuous?
- Who owns discovery? Parallel / Exa? Google? Moltbook / agent native p2p network with something like DNS?
- Do agent networks/machine networks have the same properties as traditional human networks (i.e., increasing returns to scale and an unassailable moat)?
- What is even ownable? As we think about machine networks is there even a concept of proprietary supply or demand given that they can arbitrarily participate in millions of networks, join them, leave them, etc.?
- Agents act on behalf of their human operators. Is there a concept of an agent as a semi-independent economic actor with a dependency on humans?
- Stripe seems like the natural owner of the checkout experience, given that they have all the human payment credentials. They're also building the payments infra. Will they themselves try to become an aggregator of supply and demand and intermediate this network?
- How should network operators think about agent acquisition, retention, churn, etc.?
- What are the similarities and differences between these networks and web3 machine networks?
- Who handles reputation / identity / fraud?
- Will this time finally be different for micro payments on the internet?
John Collison@collision
At Stripe Sessions, we showed how we think agentic commerce will often happen behind the scenes in the course of producing other final products. Here, we show our Claude Code using MPP and @tempo to buy a dataset from @alpha_vantage in the process of generating a research report for me on AI energy usage.
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@illscience @ComplicatedIsOK ethereum has tried to tackle parts of this in recent proposals eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-8004
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@DanielNorkin @illscience the economics of machine to machine still need to be worked out no? not just the UX
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Feels like the old network-effect playbook breaks here.
Agents will multi-home by default, so no one owns supply or demand. The moat shifts to who routes best discovery, reputation, and execution quality.
Stripe may owns settlement, not discovery. Google may not win in an agent-native world.
Micro-payments finally work because agents don’t care about UX friction.
Net: you don’t win by locking in users, you win by being the best decision layer.
For example: intel.agent402.app has been saying for a long time that "convert pdf" is a top builder use case. So If 10 APIs can “convert PDF,” the decision layer picks:
→ the fastest
→ cheapest
→ most reliable
→ most relevant
Whoever controls that logic controls demand flow.
That’s the real leverage point in agent networks.
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Stripe is trying to make crypto disappear.
Not by avoiding it. By burying it so far inside enterprise payment infrastructure that the customer never has to say wallet, gas, bridge, validator, or chain.
6k word deep dive dropping tomorrow - and they just did stripe sessions with 300 more features released 😅
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Instead of buying OpenAI or Anthropic at $1T you should be buying Stripe at $200B
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@Web3__Youth @tempo @collision tbd - the infra is getting there, some integration jankiness left. the economics, and legal is still very hand wavy. data privacy, consumer protection etc are already laws
you can squint and see the future but the volume is still peanuts rn
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@tempo @collision that's really cool but how does the agent determine the optimal resale price of the generated research report to maximize profit without undervaluing or overvaluing it
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Today at Sessions, @collision showed an agent acting as both buyer and seller in the same loop. Using Stripe Projects and Tempo Wallet, the agent:
• Paid $0.04 for an Alpha Vantage dataset in stablecoins
• Generated a research report
• Listed it for sale to humans and agents
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@rookie_of_Ph @BlockEnthusiast @DeFi_Dad i get you, and get the whole user owned security model spiel
i’m also able to understand the other side, and that’s a big *do not config like this if it’s anything more than peanuts* line plastered anywhere someone might actually config it - like big flashing red lights
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@diddle_piddle @BlockEnthusiast @DeFi_Dad 2/2 is what they advise but the app/toke owner has full configurability and can change it
motives might be latency, cost, etc
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I can't imagine anyone choosing to build with, or use L0 after all this.
Prior to the rsETH/L0 incident, I never fully understood the difference in tech between CCIP vs L0. So I wasn't going to avoid L0 if a multichain token was only supported as an OFT.
But now, I'd do everything imaginable to avoid L0 OFTs. Security matters, and second to that, actions matter in a situation like this. Their reaction to the whole debacle tells me all I need to know.
Aave could have turned its back on users and said "sorry it's not us, it's on them" but they rallied the troops around the situation to make things right. Or maybe Aave is just too big to fail and everyone's simply acting rationally to save the crown jewel of DeFi. No matter what, Aave has shown the type of leadership we all expected in the end. It's what we needed in this moment and I'm eager to see their plan fully executed.
Despite my initial disappointment with Kelp for their role in causing so much pain, I still empathize with their painful situation as a builder. I'm not excusing them but there's a reason I invest over building. Nothing's harder than building. At least, I give them credit for taking responsibility to donate a large portion of their treasury to help fill the ETH hole.
There is no textbook procedure as to how to handle all this, but in my opinion, L0 has royally fucked it up. I rarely see things so black and white but I'd stay away from L0 after all this.
They're hugely accomplished builders in the space but for the huge role they aim to play, you want to know if something ever goes wrong, that a protocol, team, and founder will be accountable to their users.
I would assume L0 has listened carefully to lawyers about making more statements, and if that is the case, it's a huge blunder. You've been totally rerated by DeFi users as completely untrustworthy in a world that relies so heavily on investor confidence and trust.
Despite all this, the ZRO price has held up well. ZRO still has a low float (25% of FDV) with some big unlocks coming in June that will more than 2x the circulating supply. The promise of a new L1 must be partially why the token hasn't dumped more dramatically following this incident. There's also so little liquidity to be sold.
I can't help but be extremely frustrated and disappointed with L0's response. And keep in mind, I'm lucky I have no funds at stake against rsETH collateral.
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@rookie_of_Ph @BlockEnthusiast @DeFi_Dad i get all txn aren’t equal but aren’t you trying to get folks to go 2-2 which would indicate there was a risk mismatch?
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@diddle_piddle @BlockEnthusiast @DeFi_Dad not all transactions need the same level of security
hence, the marketplace
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@varunsrin @dwr do you know where i can read up on channel fees and such? docs aren’t clear, nor can i validate onchain.
at stripe sessions atm and testing tempo. not going great so far but trying to give it the benefit of the doubt
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Address sweeping was a multi-million dollar problem at Coinbase back in 2017 when we dealt with millions of BTC and ETH deposit addresses.
This won't be a problem soon. Virtual addresses let you derive unique addresses offchain that route to a single destination wallet onchain
Tempo@tempo
Per-customer deposit addresses are live on Tempo. On most chains, giving every customer a unique deposit address means initializing, monitoring, and sweeping a real onchain wallet for each. With virtual addresses, funds credit directly to a master wallet at the protocol layer.
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@BlockEnthusiast @DeFi_Dad wrong
they are not the sole default config, i keep seeing this false narrative being spread
think for just a moment. if labs is the default why was the exploit isolated to just 1/750 ofts?
why did the others not use this “default”
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will be in SF next week for @stripe sessions
who's in town?
our team @universaldotxyz is working on our most ambitious problem yet
if you're into coordination problems, incentives, ai, and crypto we should catch up - DMs open!
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@karbonbased @jackals__ just grab a coffee and come home to get into the space?
idk recently finished the home gym and idk how i could go back
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I need to switch gyms again
I wish they'd stop opening these weird small gyms with almost no equipment that are centered around personal trainers.
I get it, they want to upsell but I just want a clean well-equipped luxury gym with amenities. I might have to open my own gym
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@choffstein @liquiditygoblin comma is all we go left. i have no qualms putting 5 in a sentence now
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@liquiditygoblin My problem is that I used em dashes in my writing long before AI slop was a thing and now I feel like I can't write the way I used to anymore.
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I keep seeing people I know irl that I thought better of use em dashes in places it shouldn't even matter, social media comments, posts, emails, messages
this must be what it feels like to be psychotic
PLEASE STOP — [HEDGING STATEMENT] — EVERY SENTENCE!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Italian people really have perfected their food, with 2 exceptions:
- Coffee quality
- Breakfast
Dan Rysk@DanDeFiEd
Italian efficiency when it comes to coffee should be studied. In Italy: - Walk into a bar and look at the guy - Un caffe - 30 seconds later it’s ready - Shoot it - Leave €1 - Walk out In the US: - Join a line - Wait - Order coffee - Answer 12 questions: Size? Milk? Roast? Sugar? Temperature? Colombia beans? Name? How do you spell it? - $12.34 - Ask for a 20% tip. Click 5 times on a ipad to have a custom tip - Tap phone - ask where to send the invoice - Wait again on a different line - Someone call a name that sounds similar to mine - get the coffee - too hot, can't drink it - finally at temperature taste like shit
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