David Freeman

@AmericnChristn @ajfworship @johnpauldickson Not”what” but “Who” - I am talking about Jesus and his teaching about leadership. Hint: read the four gospels.

@DavidCFreeman @ajfworship @johnpauldickson What are you taking about?

Why some of us can rejoice in women “pastors” even if we pretty much disagree with the idea. First, take a less fraught example: baptism. Suppose you’re 80% convinced the Bible endorses only believer’s baptism, not infant baptism. That still means you think there’s a half-decent chance you could be wrong. Since this is a matter of church order rather than morality, perhaps that possibility should be enough to let you attend the baptism of your friends’ infant child and even find some joy in it. After all, there’s a meaningful chance this practice is biblical, as many thoughtful, biblically serious Christians believe. Likewise, suppose you’re 80% convinced the Bible restricts women from doing pastor-like things. That still means you think there’s a half-decent chance you could be wrong. Since this too is a matter of church order rather than morality, perhaps that possibility should be enough to let you sit under the preaching and ministry of a gifted woman and maybe even find some blessing in it. After all, there’s a meaningful chance this too is biblical, as many thoughtful, biblically serious Christians believe. At least, that’s how I’ve come to think about it.

@AmericnChristn @ajfworship @johnpauldickson Which is exactly how Paul described himself. How quickly we forget Jesus’ teaching on leadership as we defend men leading by their authority instead of leading by their service. If you believe women should be servants, then make them leaders, because they are most qualified.

@ajfworship @johnpauldickson There is no nuance in scripture. The more likely explanation is a poor translation… Men are to be leaders, not women. A “deaconess”, like Phoebe, didn’t lead or have authority. She served the church.

@JaredCBurt I wonder how many in the SBC are wishing that the Pharisees were here to teach them how to bring more clarity to the application of the law?

If the “Truth & Unity” amendment passes and a church with a female Executive Pastor wants to remain in friendly cooperation with the SBC, could they achieve that goal by changing her title to “Director of Pastors” or “Chief of Staff”? If not, why not?

@stephenaltrogge @WendyAlsup Not every pastor is an elder, although every elder is to shepherd (and teach, but every teacher is not an elder either).

@WendyAlsup Neither is elder. Or deacon. Because those are just English translations of Greek words. And pastor and elder can be interchangeable depending on how they’re used

There are two ordained offices in the New Testament church, and "pastor" is not one of them.

@garetrobinson @WendyAlsup @pastordmack Who was commissioned as a pastor in the NT? Timothy or Titus are never called pastor. In fact no named person is titled pastor in the NT.

@WendyAlsup @pastordmack Which NT ecclesiology are you talking about? I ask, not only because there are multiple ecclesiologies, but also that I see pastors being commissioned (ordained is a funny word here) in the NT. :-)

@danieldruen @Tony_Ray__ @JimmyParker87 @UpTambourine If pastor is an office, why are not apostle, prophet, evangelist and teacher - all listed as nouns in Ephesians 4?

@Tony_Ray__ @JimmyParker87 @UpTambourine There are Pastor’s and Deacon. Those are the only two Church offices given in the New Testament. There should be a plurality of both Pastors and Deacons in every local church.

Opposition to the Mohler Amendment is STRONG. At this point I'll be shocked if it passes. What was supposed to be something that keeps us within Biblical bounds has actually served to be a spotlight that is revealing the liberalism that wasn't eradicated but merely retreated.

@megbasham @revannek lol. Sheila’s teaching is life giving, not destructive, to women. And her research, which has been peer reviewed, proves it. And her husband, a medical doctor, is even more emphatic than her. We recommend her book in our pre-marrriage prep.

Really glad to see Alisa and @revannek taking on Gregoire’s destructive teaching. Excellent job ladies!

@NeilShenvi The discussion about who can preach completely ignores the fact that it is the Scripture, not the speaker, which has authority. That is why in our church we ask everyone to have their Bibles open during the sermon.

Many evangelicals need to reflect more deeply on the question: "what is a sermon?" If a sermon is just "giving advice from a stage" then it's not clear why only an elder should do it.

@GMathis89 @KennethOrtiz And my response assumed that there are doctrinal safeguards. My caution was in making them too broad, including peripheral issues as if they are central. Case in point is making complementarianism and definition of pastor core doctrines.

@DavidCFreeman @KennethOrtiz I can't be made to believe you are constitutionally incapable of considering the following question: If a denomination were to elevate 'autonomy' to the point that it cannot exclude a church for departure from its confession, are there any doctrinal safeguards at all?

Honest question: For those who say Baptist autonomy means we can’t enforce doctrinal unity on complementarianism, how does your argument handle central Gospel issues? Ok for a church not to be aligned on PSA or exclusivity of Christ? How does your logic prevent the CBF error?

@GMathis89 @KennethOrtiz My answer is still the same but perhaps we are talking too different languages, since I don’t operate within SBC categories and definitions.

@DavidCFreeman @KennethOrtiz Actually, brother, you didn't answer the original question. You moved the goalposts. The question was very limited. It asked how those who put autonomy above confessionalism have any safeguards at all. Answer still pending....

@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 Also, my first response to Greg was right on point. I answered the question he asked and it was he who raised the issue of complementarianism. Not sure what your complaint is

@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 Again, this thread isn’t about whether women should be pastors. SBC has already settled what we believe about that. This thread is about whether the SBC will stick to its own doctrine. You jumped into the wrong thread. Suggestion: Read more carefully before jumping into a thread.

@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 A little late to conclude that after you engaged with me, which accomplished my goal. Thanks for the discussion.

@PastorMikeStone That is exactly what the Pharisees knew too. Good job!

Ambiguity is the fortress of false doctrine.

@JosiahHawthorne The whole discussion as to whether women can preach is rooted in the false belief that it is the preacher, not the Scripture, which has authority.

In 2023 I attended a Methodist church service in which a female pastor delivered almost word-for-word one of John Wesley's sermons. (This wasn't plagiarism, she told us what she was doing, she just modernized his English a little.) Here's my question: was that a woman preaching?

@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 I don’t disobey God’s instructions either. But I do disobey man-made misinterpretations of Scripture which are claimed to come from God, including restrictions on the ministry of women. I follow Jesus and Paul and the way they treated women - as fellow-workers!

@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 God has given us prescriptions for how we are to live and minister. I’m not gonna intentionally disobey them for any reason.

@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 It’s not SBC that lives in my head, it is the people who will not meet Christ because of the marginalization of women who are filled with the HS and who God wants to use. I am sad when loyalty to tribe is more important than lost people.

@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 I’m really glad that you’re not in charge of the SBC. Also, I think it’s odd that all these non-SBC guys think so long and hard about the SBC. Lives rent-free in your head. Please, go worry about your own tribe.

@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 SBC has the longest and most inclusive “statement of faith” than any Christian organization I know. I suggest SBC figure out what the essentials are and stick with them as the basis of unity, letting churches have freedom in other areas.

@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 If someone disagrees with the BFM, they’re welcome to do missions with a different org or denomination. Every missions agency in the world has a statement of faith and expects their missionaries to adhere to it. Why are you expecting the SBC to be different?

@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 Yes. And is the BFM a creed? You are treating it as if it is. SBC has backtracked on other positions, why not this one?

@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 So, your position is that churches should be allowed to have women pastors, and that SBC should change its Statement of Faith? Seriously? Is that your position?

@ScottPatton33 @Wade_Burleson Your “pastor/elder” made up term is not taught in the NT. They are not equivalent. The fact that elders are to shepherd and teach does not necessitate that every shepherd or teacher is an elder.

Embarrassment! This article is theological rebellion wrapped in “autonomy” language. Scripture is crystal clear: pastors/elders are biblically qualified men (1 Tim. 2:12, 1 Tim. 3, Titus 1). The SBC didn’t invent complementarianism — God did. Calling biblical order “fraudulent authority” while comparing faithful Christians to homosexual rebellion is disgraceful and completely out of bounds. This isn’t courage. It’s open warfare against biblical authority under the banner of “freedom.”

@GMathis89 @KennethOrtiz Who made the rule that it can’t change? SBC has changed it before. If you can add stuff you can also delete stuff. Sometimes it is wise to live with diversity and get on with why (assumedly) you think SBC exists- the evangelization of the world.

@DavidCFreeman @KennethOrtiz You are free to believe that. The issue is that the BFM makes a claim about what a pastor is. Some disagree, but want to be treated as if it doesn’t matter. The solution to those who disagree can’t be “change the denominational statement to accommodate those who dissent.”