David Freeman

3.1K posts

David Freeman

David Freeman

@DavidCFreeman

I am: Disciple of Jesus, Husband, Father, Grandfather, Friend. I do: Associate Pastor, Gateway Church, Caledonia

Ontario, Canada Katılım Mayıs 2009
360 Takip Edilen344 Takipçiler
John Dickson
John Dickson@johnpauldickson·
Why some of us can rejoice in women “pastors” even if we pretty much disagree with the idea. First, take a less fraught example: baptism. Suppose you’re 80% convinced the Bible endorses only believer’s baptism, not infant baptism. That still means you think there’s a half-decent chance you could be wrong. Since this is a matter of church order rather than morality, perhaps that possibility should be enough to let you attend the baptism of your friends’ infant child and even find some joy in it. After all, there’s a meaningful chance this practice is biblical, as many thoughtful, biblically serious Christians believe. Likewise, suppose you’re 80% convinced the Bible restricts women from doing pastor-like things. That still means you think there’s a half-decent chance you could be wrong. Since this too is a matter of church order rather than morality, perhaps that possibility should be enough to let you sit under the preaching and ministry of a gifted woman and maybe even find some blessing in it. After all, there’s a meaningful chance this too is biblical, as many thoughtful, biblically serious Christians believe. At least, that’s how I’ve come to think about it.
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@AmericnChristn @ajfworship @johnpauldickson Which is exactly how Paul described himself. How quickly we forget Jesus’ teaching on leadership as we defend men leading by their authority instead of leading by their service. If you believe women should be servants, then make them leaders, because they are most qualified.
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An American Christian
An American Christian@AmericnChristn·
@ajfworship @johnpauldickson There is no nuance in scripture. The more likely explanation is a poor translation… Men are to be leaders, not women. A “deaconess”, like Phoebe, didn’t lead or have authority. She served the church.
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@JaredCBurt I wonder how many in the SBC are wishing that the Pharisees were here to teach them how to bring more clarity to the application of the law?
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𝙹𝚊𝚛𝚎𝚍 𝙲. 𝙱𝚞𝚛𝚝 🌎
If the “Truth & Unity” amendment passes and a church with a female Executive Pastor wants to remain in friendly cooperation with the SBC, could they achieve that goal by changing her title to “Director of Pastors” or “Chief of Staff”? If not, why not?
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stephen altrogge
stephen altrogge@stephenaltrogge·
@WendyAlsup Neither is elder. Or deacon. Because those are just English translations of Greek words. And pastor and elder can be interchangeable depending on how they’re used
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Wendy Alsup
Wendy Alsup@WendyAlsup·
There are two ordained offices in the New Testament church, and "pastor" is not one of them.
GIF
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Garet Robinson
Garet Robinson@garetrobinson·
@WendyAlsup @pastordmack Which NT ecclesiology are you talking about? I ask, not only because there are multiple ecclesiologies, but also that I see pastors being commissioned (ordained is a funny word here) in the NT. :-)
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Daniel Druen
Daniel Druen@danieldruen·
@Tony_Ray__ @JimmyParker87 @UpTambourine There are Pastor’s and Deacon. Those are the only two Church offices given in the New Testament. There should be a plurality of both Pastors and Deacons in every local church.
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Jimmy Parker
Jimmy Parker@JimmyParker87·
Opposition to the Mohler Amendment is STRONG. At this point I'll be shocked if it passes. What was supposed to be something that keeps us within Biblical bounds has actually served to be a spotlight that is revealing the liberalism that wasn't eradicated but merely retreated.
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@megbasham @revannek lol. Sheila’s teaching is life giving, not destructive, to women. And her research, which has been peer reviewed, proves it. And her husband, a medical doctor, is even more emphatic than her. We recommend her book in our pre-marrriage prep.
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@NeilShenvi The discussion about who can preach completely ignores the fact that it is the Scripture, not the speaker, which has authority. That is why in our church we ask everyone to have their Bibles open during the sermon.
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Neil Shenvi
Neil Shenvi@NeilShenvi·
Many evangelicals need to reflect more deeply on the question: "what is a sermon?" If a sermon is just "giving advice from a stage" then it's not clear why only an elder should do it.
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@GMathis89 @KennethOrtiz And my response assumed that there are doctrinal safeguards. My caution was in making them too broad, including peripheral issues as if they are central. Case in point is making complementarianism and definition of pastor core doctrines.
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Gregory W. Mathis
Gregory W. Mathis@GMathis89·
@DavidCFreeman @KennethOrtiz I can't be made to believe you are constitutionally incapable of considering the following question: If a denomination were to elevate 'autonomy' to the point that it cannot exclude a church for departure from its confession, are there any doctrinal safeguards at all?
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Gregory W. Mathis
Gregory W. Mathis@GMathis89·
Honest question: For those who say Baptist autonomy means we can’t enforce doctrinal unity on complementarianism, how does your argument handle central Gospel issues? Ok for a church not to be aligned on PSA or exclusivity of Christ? How does your logic prevent the CBF error?
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@GMathis89 @KennethOrtiz My answer is still the same but perhaps we are talking too different languages, since I don’t operate within SBC categories and definitions.
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Gregory W. Mathis
Gregory W. Mathis@GMathis89·
@DavidCFreeman @KennethOrtiz Actually, brother, you didn't answer the original question. You moved the goalposts. The question was very limited. It asked how those who put autonomy above confessionalism have any safeguards at all. Answer still pending....
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 Also, my first response to Greg was right on point. I answered the question he asked and it was he who raised the issue of complementarianism. Not sure what your complaint is
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Kenny Ortiz
Kenny Ortiz@KennethOrtiz·
@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 Again, this thread isn’t about whether women should be pastors. SBC has already settled what we believe about that. This thread is about whether the SBC will stick to its own doctrine. You jumped into the wrong thread. Suggestion: Read more carefully before jumping into a thread.
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 A little late to conclude that after you engaged with me, which accomplished my goal. Thanks for the discussion.
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Mike Stone
Mike Stone@PastorMikeStone·
Ambiguity is the fortress of false doctrine.
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@JosiahHawthorne The whole discussion as to whether women can preach is rooted in the false belief that it is the preacher, not the Scripture, which has authority.
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Josiah Hawthorne
Josiah Hawthorne@JosiahHawthorne·
In 2023 I attended a Methodist church service in which a female pastor delivered almost word-for-word one of John Wesley's sermons. (This wasn't plagiarism, she told us what she was doing, she just modernized his English a little.) Here's my question: was that a woman preaching?
Quasi-Citizen@EditrixLane

@JosiahHawthorne @M_W_Moon I wonder now, with AI, how many pastors/priests/preachers etc are using machines to create their preaching. Obviously, the LLMs are using the words and thoughts of women as part of it. Can a man preach a sermon written by women? Is it really just the voice box that matters?

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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 I don’t disobey God’s instructions either. But I do disobey man-made misinterpretations of Scripture which are claimed to come from God, including restrictions on the ministry of women. I follow Jesus and Paul and the way they treated women - as fellow-workers!
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Kenny Ortiz
Kenny Ortiz@KennethOrtiz·
@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 God has given us prescriptions for how we are to live and minister. I’m not gonna intentionally disobey them for any reason.
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 It’s not SBC that lives in my head, it is the people who will not meet Christ because of the marginalization of women who are filled with the HS and who God wants to use. I am sad when loyalty to tribe is more important than lost people.
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Kenny Ortiz
Kenny Ortiz@KennethOrtiz·
@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 I’m really glad that you’re not in charge of the SBC. Also, I think it’s odd that all these non-SBC guys think so long and hard about the SBC. Lives rent-free in your head. Please, go worry about your own tribe.
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 SBC has the longest and most inclusive “statement of faith” than any Christian organization I know. I suggest SBC figure out what the essentials are and stick with them as the basis of unity, letting churches have freedom in other areas.
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Kenny Ortiz
Kenny Ortiz@KennethOrtiz·
@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 If someone disagrees with the BFM, they’re welcome to do missions with a different org or denomination. Every missions agency in the world has a statement of faith and expects their missionaries to adhere to it. Why are you expecting the SBC to be different?
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@KennethOrtiz @GMathis89 Yes. And is the BFM a creed? You are treating it as if it is. SBC has backtracked on other positions, why not this one?
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Kenny Ortiz
Kenny Ortiz@KennethOrtiz·
@DavidCFreeman @GMathis89 So, your position is that churches should be allowed to have women pastors, and that SBC should change its Statement of Faith? Seriously? Is that your position?
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@ScottPatton33 @Wade_Burleson Your “pastor/elder” made up term is not taught in the NT. They are not equivalent. The fact that elders are to shepherd and teach does not necessitate that every shepherd or teacher is an elder.
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Scott Patton
Scott Patton@ScottPatton33·
Embarrassment! This article is theological rebellion wrapped in “autonomy” language. Scripture is crystal clear: pastors/elders are biblically qualified men (1 Tim. 2:12, 1 Tim. 3, Titus 1). The SBC didn’t invent complementarianism — God did. Calling biblical order “fraudulent authority” while comparing faithful Christians to homosexual rebellion is disgraceful and completely out of bounds. This isn’t courage. It’s open warfare against biblical authority under the banner of “freedom.”
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David Freeman
David Freeman@DavidCFreeman·
@GMathis89 @KennethOrtiz Who made the rule that it can’t change? SBC has changed it before. If you can add stuff you can also delete stuff. Sometimes it is wise to live with diversity and get on with why (assumedly) you think SBC exists- the evangelization of the world.
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Gregory W. Mathis
Gregory W. Mathis@GMathis89·
@DavidCFreeman @KennethOrtiz You are free to believe that. The issue is that the BFM makes a claim about what a pastor is. Some disagree, but want to be treated as if it doesn’t matter. The solution to those who disagree can’t be “change the denominational statement to accommodate those who dissent.”
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