DirkEZM

I could write mountains of texts about the Whisperers and fate, but I think it's primarily about acceptance and self-forgiveness, which connect Cloud to all the threads of destiny, because he saves the planet from death. He is the one who lives a divided life, which also explains the different Whisperer factions and their corruption and subsequent control. Cloud is like a wolf who has lost leadership of his pack and only integrates it as a part of himself through the support of his friends, learning to live in harmony with it.

I agree with you on most points. I think it's more than just the Lifestream, because Zack was born from the deepest inner desires, hopes, and dreams of the White Materia. Aerith's memories are fused with the White Materia, which is why Zack ended up in Sector 5, Aerith's home. I also can't imagine that "returning home" and "returning to the planet" are the same thing. Firstly, at the end of one's life, one must be willing to let go of one's physical form, which can cause greed, hatred, and delusion. As long as one clings to it (Jenova feeds on it), one doesn't escape the cycle of rebirth and death but returns again and again to the planet without ever truly returning home to its heart. I also don't think it's a multiverse, because the planet is a whole, a Tree of Life with its branches representing the worlds, threads, rivers, and collective memories of all beings in the Lifestream who wish to receive the light of Heaven. Every living being follows its own path, perceives the world with its own senses, can ally itself with other worlds or threads (resonance) to fight for a common goal, and can also separate again if it so desires. Buddhism: "I am the world and the world is me."

were still alive and in Zack's "world"??? we hear NPCs talk about it too! It's all there, this is LIFESTREAM not alternate worlds in the sense of physical timelines but just dreams, hopes and wishes.

Are some serious right now? “Hamaguchi said story won’t change. I don’t remember Zack in OG” Please tell me you are joking. Zack in the LS is being expanded to then help expand Aerith’s story in the LS. Damn the multiverse theories really took critical thinking &⬇️

Tifa's element is both water and fire. Sephiroth can be associated with the element of earth, though fire isn't inaccurate. Sephiroth simply embodies fire, which recalls Cloud's traumatic past, tragically linked to Tifa, and the conflict he must overcome, making Cloud vulnerable to manipulation. Cloud's element is Aether, an empty space that connects all the elements of earth, fire, water, and air, representing the spirit searching for pure truth. As long as these elements are not absorbed and integrated by Aether, it remains permeable and transparent like a cloud. Aether possesses the qualities of vastness, connection, hearing, and sound. Derived from chakra energy and color theory.

Still thinking about that Tifa's element is water, and Sephiroth is fire ans it's cinema.

@ffSteeD27 Therefore, the planet's will is neither good nor evil, nor does it necessarily have to serve life. The planet follows the rules of nature, for everything that exists must also end.

The biggest issue I personally have with the bad ending angle for post FF7 is that said ending was a necessity for humans to atone. If humans weren't punished by the planet, they wouldn't stop. The whole point of FF7 is that the party pitched for humanity, which got it spared.

A truly excellent summary of Cloud's suffering and his journey out of the darkness… A quote from C.G. Jung aptly describes it: “I am not what happened to me. I am what I choose to become. You have walked through the fire. You have survived the emptiness. Now it is time to wear gold. For the best capital does not begin in the future. It begins the moment you cease to ask permission to be who you truly are. The change begins now.”

Hablemos de Cloud, que muchos no entienden al personaje. Se presenta como alguien frío, seguro y casi inalcanzable, pero esa personalidad es una construcción. Cloud representa una pregunta muy incómoda: ¿Cuánto de lo que llamamos “yo” nace realmente de nosotros mismos? 🧵🪡

@QueenLolipopo @ffSteeD27 In mythological texts, especially Greek mythology, visions and the struggle against them lead precisely to the fulfillment of fate, as the preserved memories lead the characters exactly to the point where they are destined.

@ffSteeD27 Yes, people only talk about episode Tifa in OTWTAS, meanwhile episode nanaki, shinra and yuffie hold a crazy ammount of info all very relevant with the trilogy, especially with the lesson you get from Nanaki, about accepting loss and his duty being to remember and share the story

Back to Hamaguchi's "Can the characters really change their fate?" - an interesting perspective is to think of the visions as the most terrifying moments the characters have buried in their unconscious. Meteor for Tifa, Not saving Aerith for Cloud, loneliness for Red XIII, etc.

I think the Whisperers are manifested repressions because the characters, especially Aerith and Cloud, are running away from their pain, suffering, and fear. The repressed memories are stolen and accumulate in the Lifestream so that the characters can learn to take their destiny into their own hands and grow beyond their previous existence. This can only happen, however, if they are honest with themselves and don't close themselves off from it, as C.G. Jung explains in his books. I don't think it would be possible to steal Sephiroth's memories without a physical body, since he is protected in a dome in the Northern Crater.

@StygianSis Why would the planet correct a course of events that lead to it's survival ? Because this is what OG is, everything Jenova and Sephiroth do eventually leads to the Planet survival

Also would like to add there is a whisper that comes to Cloud as he's asleep in Chapter 4 of Final Fantasy VII Remake that talks to him in Sephiroth's voice. Knowing what we know after Rebirth especially, it'd be irresponsible to assume Sephiroth has not at least had some control of the whispers from the very beginning. Sephiroth is confirmed to be able to manipulate the Weapons to keep them from attacking him in Disc 2 when they are awakened. Why couldn't Sephiroth just as easily manipulate some whispers from the planet, that are also part of the Planet's defense system? Also the whispers never once attack Sephiroth in the game. Wouldn't he be their number one target, considering he is the one out to destroy the planet??

@nitezintodreamz @CloudyWolf80

I've written several threads about the Lifestream Scene in Final Fantasy VII (1997). Here they all are in one place, hopefully this helps someone in need. Thread:🧵⬇️

@SEPH7ROTH From a color theory perspective, these are souls that can be categorized according to their degree of purity, from white to gray to black. This perfectly matches the Cetra, the people, and Jenova.

@SEPH7ROTH Regarding your first post: When Sephiroth attacks the Weapon, he steals spiritual energy, corrupts souls, and takes control. The Whisperers pour out of the Weapon. Tifa is also affected to some extent; only her memories of her friends save her from worse consequences.

Si los Whispers de Rebirth son los guardianes del destino de Remake que Sephiroth pudo controlar después de absorberlos, ¿cómo es posible que puedan surgir a partir de LS recién corrompido?

@Wally443 @TifaTheMonk @SEPH7ROTH There is, or even was, a way to turn off the Zack chapters. I think that says a lot...

@TifaTheMonk @SEPH7ROTH Exactly.

Pienso que se debería dejar de creer que porque no sepamos cómo encajarán los nuevos misterios de 7R con la historia OG; 7R tiene que convertirse en cualquier cosa menos en la historia de FFVII que todos conocemos.

I think this scene is the pivotal moment to show that "the one Whisperer" is infected by positioning herself above Cloud, who serves as a bridge for the Jenova cells. This turns her into Sephiroth's puppet, allowing him to manipulate destiny. As a result, he can command the Whisperers, who follow the planet's will and operate within a collective consciousness, since he assumes leadership. The voice he hears originates from his dream, which is haunting Sephiroth and is part of Cloud's unconscious. When we dream, our consciousness enters and connects with the Lifestream's collective unconscious. This is how, for example, Aerith can store future memories in the white materia because the Lifestream encompasses both time and space. The Whisperers cannot fully perceive Sephiroth or steal his memories because his physical body is protected within the Northern Crater, shielded from the planet's view and will.

@CloudyWolf80 @pxl_pshr @motokomakima @SEPH7ROTH Same tbh for two main reasons. Not in complete control perhaps but enough... 1) This whisper has Sephiroth's voice. Major red flag. 2) The whispers never attack Sephiroth in Remake AFAIR. They attack everyone else but him. Why? He's the biggest threat to the planet.

Retrilogy is also not a sequel to the OG, to me

It’s hard to say, but negative emotions are actually what provide the decisive spark to change things for the better. This only succeeds, however, if the consciousness does not suppress this pain. If these feelings are blocked, they return from the subconscious in a distorted form. One then loses the ability for energetic balance and can no longer integrate these emotions as part of one's own truth. In this state, the planet—the Lifestream—splits off the memories stored within the soul like an infection; a call to purify the consciousness. A perfect example of this is the trial in the Temple of the Ancients: it is about not being enslaved by a past stained with suffering, anger, and hatred. Instead, one should use these experiences as inner strength to shape the future for the better. This motif runs through the entire game like a red-golden thread.

@super_ramio @CloudyWolf80 Negative emotions/memories/knowledge being blocked from integrating into the consciousness of the planet. And that’s a bit of an issue. Now where have I heard that before?

While I wholeheartedly agree with @super_ramio and @SEPH7ROTH that these are souls corrupt by Jenova, I'd like to add the 2 things I took from this scene was that Sephiroth does not yet have full control which allows some of these souls to have some agency and some are Cetra

I could write mountains of texts about the Whisperers and fate, but I think it's primarily about acceptance and self-forgiveness, which connect Cloud to all the threads of destiny, because he saves the planet from death. He is the one who lives a divided life, which also explains the different Whisperer factions and their corruption and subsequent control. Cloud is like a wolf who has lost leadership of his pack and only integrates it as a part of himself through the support of his friends, learning to live in harmony with it.

@CloudyWolf80 @super_ramio @SEPH7ROTH @nemuriforest @theshenami Honestly the vizualisation of those lifestream curreents and angry soulds through the shape of the multiverse is one of the best thing that came out of rebirth, and irony is a lot hate it cause they never bothered learning about the lifestream

@super_ramio @SEPH7ROTH @nemuriforest @theshenami

@nemuriforest What I would really appreciate is if they remade Before Crisis, even within Ever Crisis. After Part 3 is released, a console version of Ever Crisis without the gacha aspect would be ideal. It certainly wouldn't be easy to implement, but I'm still hoping.

I view Remake as a reconciliation of the entire FF7 expanded world and lore There’s a one-way problem in that the extra media is connected to the OG but not vice versa So Remake has the benefit of intergrating it all as a comprehensive archive and cohesive whole with continuity

I completely agree. After all, theories are meant to open up new perspectives and express one's love for FF7. A major problem, unfortunately, is that when you identify too strongly with the work and it becomes part of your personality, you feel obligated to downplay or ridicule perceived inaccuracies and opinions, simply to glorify your own opinion and supposed love for it. Sometimes I really think some people are like Cloud, trapped in a dream world, blocking everything out to live in their own reality. In doing so, they lose the ability to admit a mistake.

Part of the fun of FF7R is discussing what we all think is happening. I don’t agree with Max on a lot of his ideas, but I love hearing his takes. Same with all the theorists, content creators, shippers, purists, and newcomers. For me, it’s just fun to talk about and consider ideas. Hence why I’ll talk to anybody (which sometimes gets me in trouble) It’s important to remember that everybody brings their unique lens of expertise, experience, and preference to their ideas. Some are incredibly well-researched, some are not. But all are telling of something. When you listen to a theory, you aren’t learning the secret key to the answer. You’re learning a bit about the person generating it. That connection and how they got there is what I love. Heck, it’s why I interview people about their perspectives. Nobody is going to be able to say they were 100% right. But that isn’t the point. The point is, we’re on the playground again discussing our shared passion. That’s what FF7R has given us. Anyway, we’re in the home stretch now. Don’t get burned out now!

@Cloudonachocobo @CloudyWolf80 Just as it began. In Aerith's Promised Land...

How should FFVII Remake Part 3 end? Be honest.

There isn't a more definitive statement (image) that it's not a "sequel." I think that due to modern technology and the addition of storylines to the compilation, the results are perceived differently in people's minds, particularly regarding the visual representation, especially the level of detail in Cloud's mental conflict. Although it follows the story-based events and key elements of the original, it can't be a direct 1:1 sequel but rather a reinterpretation. Everyone lives in their own world and has a different understanding of what constitutes a "sequel." This is what causes the problems in most discussions.

@SEPH7ROTH @CloudyWolf80 This is pretty smart on the part of the devs. In the same interview where Nojima said there would be less room for interpretation, he also said that he hopes players would feel more close to Cloud and his experiences. In this case, their goal to cause bewilderment and non-⬇️

Hamaguchi responde a la pregunta ➡️ si en algún momento se planteó cambiar el destino de Aerith.

I think it's both a sequel and not, because of the existence of time. Someone can take the same route to work every morning, the same route they took in 1997, and 30 years later they might take a different one because the road or the turns have changed, because the flow of time doesn't stand still. This doesn't change the direction or the destination, because that's simply their destiny. This also rules out the multiverse theory, because it's like a tree of life with one trunk (the physical world) and many small branches (the lifestream). It's ultimately one planet, one whole. Branches can grow together and separate again. The destination and the direction remain the same because the tree grows towards the light, towards the sky, even 30 years later. A multiverse would therefore consist of almost infinitely many trees of life and planets.

I really need someone to explain to me what “meta-sequel” is. Can the events we’re seeing chronologically replace the OG? Will they end differently? Yes or no? All the rest is buzzwords used differently which even people in the same camp can’t agree on.