Rebuild Proponent

@jffstphns3 @SamQuinnCBS I think SGA is regarded as an all time legend. B2B MVP, viewed as BTW for now, FMVP last year. I think the issue is no secondary star on OKC has as much glamour as a Kareem, Wade, Pippen, Kobe, Steph/KD, etc. Their claim to fame is SGA, two borderline all stars, and depth/defense

@SamQuinnCBS I’m talking more about perception. Th OP said they don’t *feel like* an all time great team. I’m saying it’s partly because Shai doesn’t *feel like* an all time legend. He might be just as skilled, but he hasn’t reached rockstar status nor is he in Mount Rushmore conversation.

I mean, is Shai so far now from where like Kobe was in 2000 or Steph was in 2015? Some guys—your Shaqs, your LeBrons, your Wembys—are preordained as all-time guys. Others aren't, but at a certain point it becomes clear that's where they're headed, and I think that's where SGA is.

@ProfBZZZ I think this situation is largely paradoxical. Intelligent and motivated students caused higher GPA standards for jobs, which caused higher competition, causing students to take shortcuts, thereby leading to a less intelligent, less motivated population.

A student today at my elite university admitted to me today that she took a class so she could work on reading for more than 20 minutes at a time. She can't read. She mainly skims and summarizes, she says and still gets A's. This student is, by professional standards, illiterate. Gonna have high GPA when she graduates. This conversation was had after 6 of 22 students dropped my course because the maximum reading per week in one week was over 100 pages. What people aren't grasping is that this is literally *dangerous*. These people are going to be come doctors, engineers, etc. They are - by any metric - vastly less capable than prior generations. These effects are cumulative over a lifetime. This grade inflation is part of the problem, but not even close to the entirety. And the problem obviously starts in K-12. Students don't know history because, you can't actually become historically literate on the advice of 'never assign more than 30 pages a week'. You can't develop any of the skills that came with literacy. This is, quite honestly, a civilizational catastrophe.

@HPbasketball If we think about what makes OKC great, it's an elite superstar (as there've been many of in NBA history), some other borderline all stars, and elite depth and talent throughout. Nothing specifically immediately jumps out apart from SGA.

@HPbasketball One major difference is the lack of a true secondary superstar. I don't think the 2015 Warriors were considered an all time team, 2016 yes but only becuase of record. Every other "all time team" had a top 5-10 player in the league as a second option (Kobe, Wade, Pippen, KD/Steph)

I'm really interested by the idea that the Thunder are, objectively, an All-Time team. Wins. Point Differential. Defense. Defense with Offensive Capability. Led by MVP. Depth. Coaching. Culture. Execution. But they do not feel like the all-time great teams *to me* and I do not know why. (Thunder fans, I get they fell like that to you and that people SHOULD view them that way. Read the first part again.) If you're not a Thunder fan, does OKC feel like an all-time great team on par with Warriors 2016, 2017, or say, Heat 2012 (who were objectively much worse than OKC), OKC 2014, 01 Lakers, etc? If not, why not?

@ProfBZZZ How much time would you expect a student to devote to your class per week? I often find that 20 pages of philosophy (current undergrad student) takes me 2 hours. So far, most avg time spent on a class for me was 15 hrs/week in math, about 6 for a humanities heavier on reading.

@AndrewDBailey I mean when you establish 5 criteria, of course you're going to reach situations like this. The more criteria you establish, the easier it is for your chosen player to meet the threshold. Problem is that in the NBA these arguments lead to non-legends being inducted.

My super-simple Hall of Fame temp check is also pretty good for LaMarcus Aldridge. Kareem, Duncan, KD, Ewing, KG, LeBron, Dirk, Shaq, Hakeem, Parish and Robinson are the only players in NBA history who match or exceed all of Aldridge's regular and postseason totals for points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals.

@RUSHMOREonX @Polymarket Wilt Chamberlain, Kobe Bryant, Anthony Edwards, Bam Adebayo. Easy.

Doris Kearns Goodwin and Jon Meacham join Ari and Ben to debate which historic figures deserve to be on the Mount Rushmore of U.S. Non-Presidents. Legacies examined. Impact measured. History debated. But only 4 will be etched in Rushmore history. Presented by @Polymarket

@Marcus_Mosher Ie Geno Smith was an objectively terrible pick for the Jets. Best comp for what I'm saying is probably the NBA: Luka was a better pick than SGA, even though SGA is better now, because for these teams and GMs in all sports, early production is immensely valuable.

@Marcus_Mosher True, but that doesn't mean Moore was the better pick. I'm not saying he wasn't, but I feel like in historical evaluations we just say "this guy's better now" and ignore how important ability in years 1-4 is above anything else (weighted more heavily towards year 1).

There was a big debate in 2018 as to who was WR1 between Calvin Ridley and DJ Moore. Ridley was the more pro-ready player, but was 24 going into his rookie season. Moore was the more talented player and was only 20. 9 years later, Moore has nearly 3,000 more yards and earned a new contract in 2026. Ridley just had to take a pay cut to avoid being released by the Titans.

@ToCookForschool @fraggrrr @BengalYouTube Cooper Flagg was unanimously voted as the best player on the NBA Select Team, consisting of just him and NBA players, before he'd ever played a second of college basketball.

@fraggrrr @BengalYouTube Not true. Have you seen what 45 year old Mike Miller did to those college players 1 on 1?

I think we can call agree it's not basketball

@AndrewDBailey Warriors. His early exit made sure that 2010's OKC was defined by Russ instead of him, and that era's also been largely washed away by SGA's incredible run. Phoenix is already forgotten in all honesty, Brooklyn's only known as a "what if", Houston won't amount to anything.

Which team will Kevin Durant most be associated with in 20 years?

@CuhWristChin__ @PranavSriraman And we only use the tiebreakers for players extremely close in caliber: ie SGA and Jokic, maybe Wemby, Luka, or Giannis. Like 2024 Tatum and 2022 Steph never "earned it, just like 2025 Haliburton wouldn't have if he won, because they weren't close enough to the top.

@CuhWristChin__ @PranavSriraman Fair but I think the best counter is that BITW is often so close that it's very hard to differentiate between the top guys. And because it's so hard to differentiate, we use playoff success and signature moments as the tiebreaker to say one player "deserves" the BITW title.

Such a boring and reductive way to analyze basketball

@SamQuinnCBS But was BITW KD or Steph? They both had absurd seasons. Not to mention LeBron pre-injury, Harden pre-injury, Giannis, and Jokic. Very difficult year-I think it was KD then Steph, but many guys with an argument.

It feels lost to time but I’m adamant that KD was the best player in 2021. Giannis won the title but Durant outplayed him in that series and only lost because Harden and Kyrie got hurt. If even one of them stays healthy the Nets win that title that’s Durant’s crowning moment.

@FleekoSuave @jayden_e928 @NSftbl @UofBasketball The year of a season isn't decided by when it starts. It's when most of it is played. Not very hard to understand basic facts about a sport. Otherwise we would be talking about the 2015 Warriors going 73-9. Except not a single person does that.

@jayden_e928 @NSftbl @UofBasketball 2016-2017 means the year starts in 2016. Jesus Christ are you people fucking brain dead?

People think Kawhi hasn't put together top 5 seasons before??

@ringer Durant was #1 in 2021, arguably 2014, '17, '19. Curry was #1 in 2016. Garnett in '04. I think Harden and Luka belong on this list, maybe CP3 unless he had it in '07 or '08.

The best players who were never THE BEST player in the league

@FredThePet @AndrewDBailey Well rookie of the year is the most outstanding rookie. And that's been Kon. Flagg projects the best moving forward obviously, but that doesn't mean he's been the best this year. Also, me saying Kon contributed more value has nothing to do with Charlotte's record.

@TimetoRebuildit @AndrewDBailey It’s rookie of the year not “most valuable rookie” or whatever tf you’re trying to argue. Winning has NEVER been part of the calculus for this award, that’s for the MVP. It’s an idiotic thing to bring up.

Cooper Flagg has a higher ceiling than Kon Knueppel. Knueppel had an objectively better rookie season. It’s fine to acknowledge both.

@PranavSriraman @JoeMama158710 Which year were they the best? 2020 was TB, 2022 was KC, 2023 was BAL, 2025 was LAR or SEA, all pretty indisputably. 2024 was probably PHI, 2021 BUF dominated the spreadsheets and no other team really stood out (maybe LAR) but the Bills went 11-6.

@JoeMama158710 Cumulatively yeah I could get behind this but I think only one year they were the best. Ultimately not a cumulative sport unfortunately for them being the best over a 5 year span prob has the least amount of relevance to winning chips.

Nobody wants to admit this, but the Bills have been the best team in the NFL over the last five years and have been the victim of bad luck. 🤷‍♂️ sometimes that is the explanation.

@laze33333333333 @bigdawggtjj @BucksBallKnower That "chance" would've been going undefeated while magically hoping that every team above them forgot how to play. It wasn't realistic.

@bigdawggtjj @BucksBallKnower Yall so stupid to see they shut him down when they still had a chance for the play in?

achilles is falling off the bone but you wanna go out and try to reinjure it again so you can lose a few more meaningless games in a meaningless game? dude has lost me this season, what a goof