Malleus Haereticorum

Il est difficile en lisant l'encyclique Mystici Corporis Christi du Pape Pie XII de ne pas penser à une certaine thèse qui voudrait que les modernistes dirigent l'Église juridique mais sans "la mission dite invisible du Saint Esprit"... @Praxisdecombat Qu'en penses-tu ?

@TradCathSermons @FrNkamuke Credo in unam sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam Ecclesiam.

@TradCathSermons @FrNkamuke Don't you think that those disagreements do interfere with the restoration of the Church or at least the comprehension of the situation of the Church ? Faith is involved in these disagreements. We sedevacantists believe that the NO is a sect separated from the Church, they don't.

There should be a formal discussion regarding various positions Sedevacantists in general hold regarding state of the Church. I am sure that people will look forward to a candid, but respectful debate. The various opinions are held by serious persons, for serious reasons.

@AbbeDutertre @FrLavery @PadreLando @WireCatholic I must add what it appears to me as an important argument : x.com/XPsemperidem/s…

@AbbeDutertre @FrLavery @PadreLando @WireCatholic Please Fr., I would be very grateful if you could explain to me how this is not an anticipated condemnation of the Cassiciacum thesis.

@AbbeDutertre @FrLavery @PadreLando @WireCatholic "There can, then, be no real opposition or conflict between the invisible mission of the Holy spirit and the juridical commission of Ruler and Teacher received from Christ, since they mutually complement and perfect each other - as do the body and soul in man".

It is unfortunate that certain theological discussions have not been kept to be amongst clergy, and are ventilated in such unhealthy places as facebook and X. Now that the cat is out of the bag, it seems there is no option but to engage, but to those (specially thesis) clergy, who insist on preaching theories of theology instead of things that are more useful to the general people, one would beg: let's keep those discussions for the clergy, or those members of the laity who approach you with questions. You don't discuss brain surgery in the local market. And yes, I do it too.

@AbbeDutertre @FrLavery @PadreLando @WireCatholic Fr. you knew it could not please anyone because it's not a satisfactory answer. Van Noort say that both material and formal succession must be proven at the same time and that "no one in the entire series ever lost his mission", but you believe they've lost their mission, isn't ?

They cannot be preserved separately. One who has only material succession has no formal succession and therefore no succession at all. The opposite is not true. One cannot have formal succession without having material succession. So they cannot exist at the same time in two different groups of people where one has formal succession and the other has the material part. This is completely new theology with no basis in what any Catholic theologians have taught.

@AbbeDutertre @WireCatholic Fr. have you answered his question ? I'm afraid not. What is your solution ? I hope you will answer my question too : x.com/XPsemperidem/s…

@WireCatholic Again, explain it to me simply, now that you know that I can't make distinctions : Who are the members of this imperfect general council? Who decides who are the members? Who decides who can decides who are the members? etc. I still haven't been answered.

@AbbeDutertre @PadreLando @WireCatholic Fr. I have a question for you : If the modernists are not the formal successors of the apostles and the theologians say that the apostolic succession requires that "no one in the entire series ever lost his mission", why do you hold that they preserve the apostolic succession ?

@FrNkamuke No more "agree to disagree" your Excellency please ! That doesn't mean anything. Do we say to the modernists that we agree to disagree ?

I imagine a situation where those who hold contrary opinions will be brushed aside as ignorant. We want a formal discussion. Either a forum or a real time, in-person debate. And if no consensus position is arrived at, then we agree to disagree. God bless us all!

@D1870473838573 @AbbeDutertre @FrLavery And one can legitimately wonder why they withdrew the articles in question if they still do not believe in the thesis 🙄

@AbbeDutertre @FrLavery Well, it's not just the CMRI who disagrees with your opinion. I thought the SGG had such writings at one time. But, yes, it would be great if the CMRI had one as well. I would love to see everything in one place.

It behooves the Thesis clergy to answer this question, but it seems we will wait a long time before getting an answer from them. The reality is, if they were to honestly look into this question, they would recognize that the Thesis leads to a dead end in which their confessions are invalid and they should not be functioning as priests. Bp. Guerard did answer this question—by saying that the Church did not supply him with jurisdiction for confession.

@PadreLando @WireCatholic Allow me to insist: Are there formal successors of the apostles today? Who are they? By "successors of the apostles", as you know, we mean bishops with ordinary jurisdiction.

@AbbeDutertre @WireCatholic Question qui n'était même pas de savoir pourquoi vous rejetez l'appel de Mgr Roy mais bien de savoir ce que vous préconisez comme solution.

@AbbeDutertre @WireCatholic C'est étrange monsieur l'abbé, je ne vois pas votre réponse à la question alors que vous dites avoir répondu 🧐

@DVanLangenhove Says the fake pope of the modernist sect, not of the catholic church. 60 years of vatican 2 sect rotten fruits should be enough for any reasonable man to understand this masonic deception.

I, too, long for a world in which Catholics and Muslims live in peace and cooperation, and for this reason, amongst many others, muslim migration to Europe should be reversed. Remigration is a righteous and Catholic measure.

@TradCatTaylor @TheWMReview Deo Gratias !

@TheWMReview It’s been a rough week for the thesis, it’s been dunked on pretty thoroughly.

The last few weeks on Twitter have been a disgrace. The standards have really slipped. It's approaching brainrot level.

“How dare they lay these ridiculous notions at your feet, your excellency. Can they not see how burdened you are? How wearied? Theyll destroy everything. No, no, we must wait for the novus ordo cardinals to elect a true Pope. It’s the only safe thing to do”

@polde58 @AbbeDutertre @FrLavery Ah oui, les pseudo-cardinaux créés par le pseudo-pape qui éliront un autre pseudo-pape qui soit-disant perpétue la succession apostolique, prière de ne pas rire.

@XPsemperidem @AbbeDutertre @FrLavery Vos réponses argumentées ? Oui genre dire que c’est pas bien d’affirmer la réalité que les "cardinaux" ont toujours leur pouvoir de désignation selon le droit canon, et que c’est pas bien car ils sont méchants ?

Blocked by Fr. Desposito today despite not saying a word to him, but only retweeting parts of a civil discussion we had a couple years ago. There doesn't seem to be much willingness to engage in honest discussion. By honest, I don't mean to imply dishonesty as an alternative. I mean that kind of discussion on difficult theological problems in which each side is willing to admit frankly where the difficulties lie and where the limits of certainty are in order, finally, to arrive at the truth. It is unreasonable for RCI clergy to continue pretending that the Thesis is a bygone conclusion, as if there were no contested points, or no theologians who ever wrote things totally incompatible with it, or as if there wasn't a single theologian to support the contrary opinions of other traditional clergy. In my experience over the last few years, one can engage in cordial discussion with RCI clergy as long as all the "take" is on their side, while all the "give" is on your side. They hardly ever have a word of praise to say of other clergy, even of those with whom they cooperate. They hardly ever like or share anything that doesn't come from their own RCI priests, unless it is from someone capitulating something to the Thesis. I noticed this when observing how admirably the SGG clergy continued extending public congratulations, well-wishes, and prayers to RCI clergy on the consecration of a new bishop, the ordination anniversaries, etc., even during the time when they were the outcasts and even after none of the RCI clergy attended the funeral for Bp. Dolan--although they did extend condolences, at least. There seems to be somewhat of a purist mentality, which isolates them from other Catholic bishops and priests. I was happy to see the mending of relations between them and SGG, but sad to see that it seems to have come at the cost of removing any criticism of the Thesis, such as Fr. Lehtoranta's interesting article against the Thesis, which is now gone. As long as I took a publicly neutral attitude and simply tried to inquire about what they really believed, they were friendly. I was so careful to be neutral in my comments that someone later told me he thought I agreed with the Thesis. But once I could see clearly that their teachings really are every bit as erroneous as they seemed, and I started to present strong objections publicly, things deteriorated. I am not happy about this, but I can't sit by and watch while they publicly promote the Thesis which, if it is wrong, is a very serious and positively harmful obstacle to the good of the Church today. I can't sit by while the opinions of other clergy, who have likewise spent years studying the issues in depth, are discounted as if they had no theological basis whatsoever. 7 years ago, I spent a week in Quebec for research. While there, I stayed with a good Catholic family where @AbbeDutertre also was staying during the same week. We attended each other's Mass in the morning before I left all day for research. In the evening, when I returned, Father and I had delightful discussions regarding our mutual interest in good books, the Enthronement of the Sacred Heart, and various theological matters, although we avoided on that occasion all discussion of points of dispute. I scanned a book for him that he really wanted to reprint, since I had the scanner with me and the knowledge and software to do it. It was a very memorable week. On many occasions afterward, in speaking to the laity, I referred to how impressed I was with Father and his learning. A few years later, I had a pleasant impromptu conversation for about an hour with Fr. Desposito in front of their seminarians regarding the Thesis. I avoided being confrontational and tried to lighten up the discussion with a joke when it seemed it was heading in that direction. I would much rather such good relations continue, but not at the cost of preventing the good of the Church and stifling the efforts of other good clergy.

@liturgicalife @AsTheRain1 @carlosazuletc @D1870473838573 @AbbeDutertre @FrLavery That tells us everything we need to know, it’s like a cabalistic group trying to get people on board by means of keeping them ignorant of what they’re boarding.