Dorax ⚛️

875 posts

Dorax ⚛️

Dorax ⚛️

@dktrpo

Vulcan. @fermilabs is the DEX of the future.

Metaverse Katılım Eylül 2021
2.5K Takip Edilen182 Takipçiler
toly 🇺🇸
toly 🇺🇸@toly·
Shortages cannot persist unless someone benefits from them politically. In this case it’s @SenWarren. If there are 99 houses and 100 families, no amount of taxing the rich and giving a subsidy to the poor will house all 100 families. Some family in the middle will have to move.
toly 🇺🇸 tweet media
Elizabeth Warren@SenWarren

Multi-millionaires and billionaires keep getting richer and richer while working families get squeezed by a rigged economy. No more. It’s time for a wealth tax — and for our government to start working for working people.

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Max Resnick
Max Resnick@MaxResnick·
@mert we will simply remove the ability to reorder transactions and extract value 🪕
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Rebecca Rettig
Rebecca Rettig@RebeccaRettig1·
3/ As I talked about yesterday during @jito_labs & @jito_sol's lunch with numerous large financial institutions in attendance, we are so advanced in the permissionless blockchain world that you can achieve (1) mitigation of negative tx ordering, (2) privacy & . . .
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Rebecca Rettig
Rebecca Rettig@RebeccaRettig1·
1/ I've been quiet/taking the high rd while those pushing permissioned networks FUD permissionless networks (esp @solana) *everywhere*. I actually knew this was coming immediately after my panel @blockworksDAS & tackled it w/o naming names on stage. But I'll now be direct . . .
Digital Asset Summit 2026@blockworksDAS

"MEV — that ability for people to reorder transactions to extract value, something that happens on top of Ethereum and Solana — that's just not suitable for financial markets." @drwconvexity @DRWTrading

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Dorax ⚛️
Dorax ⚛️@dktrpo·
Okay, the frame of any form of “batch over period of x ms, then sort”, is strictly inferior to continuous time clearing , per tradfi evidence. That global distributed systems require a different system… maybe, yet to be seen. But then again, maybe it’s like “decentralisation for the sake of decentralization”, and people don’t care about “globally distributed ingress” at a value level. All they value is verifiable, censorship resistant systems. Decentralisation/ global distribution is an instrumental goal, not a terminal goal imo.
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Umberto | Mostly Data 🧙‍♂️
Let’s finish sentences so everything is more clear and transparent: It’s enough that liquidity *always* flows from fba to fifo venues on single clock infrastructures w/o global coordination. (And btw, here this is not tradfi tested FBA…clearly tradfi FBA is a garbage in low liquid markets) So far streaming is not outperforming fixed batch on all metrics. You also have to consider how global distributed systems handle txs propagation etc…
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Umberto | Mostly Data 🧙‍♂️
I know I've been an advocate for a ~FCFS scheduler for a while, but I think I have to make this statement (I was reserving it for the "The Scheduler War (Part 3): The Final Arc" coming...didn't know people at Anza were frontrunning me...). I'm not against 50ms batching because it remains a working market-design choice with regime-dependent trade-offs. I don't see it dramatically underperform streaming, and I think that until we are not able to show that MCP + FCFS is not a 🦄 we have to accept the MCP + FB.
Umberto | Mostly Data 🧙‍♂️ tweet media
Umberto | Mostly Data 🧙‍♂️@MostlyData_

TLDR (from next article coming) - waiting (rev strat) is fully extractive, we should start the walk of shame for all validators running it - batching remains a market-design choice with regime-dependent trade-offs, not a universally fair scheduler - streaming is greatly undervalued. Precisely, Streaming wins the race to speak first; FixedBatch wins the race not to pay too much once speaking first is no longer possible. WaitUpTo is outside any ranking.

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Dorax ⚛️
Dorax ⚛️@dktrpo·
Diffucult =\= impossible; that’s what we’re here for, to solve the hard problems. And marginal? It’s enough that liquidity *always* flows from fifo to FBA venues. My intuition is that similarly, if we don’t match microstructure, liquidity will always prefer centralized/tradfi venues. Which is fine if we’re just building “sanctuary technologies”. Personally I prefer targetting the full TAM of the financial services sector.
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Alejandro ($/acc)
Alejandro ($/acc)@alranpe·
Solana finally going MCP and it is basically Autobahn dissemination with Alpenglow as the ordering layer. But I think this is insufficient: there is still one leader controlling ordering. Censorship can be performed by that one leader.
Anza@anza_xyz

Introducing Constellation: a multiple concurrent proposers protocol for Solana. With proposers operating on a 50ms cycle, Constellation gives Solana the fastest protocol enforced economic tick rate of any blockchain.🧵

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Dorax ⚛️
Dorax ⚛️@dktrpo·
Distinction is critical. Selective, or targeted censorship is the most toxic form, rest is just griefing.
Max Resnick@MaxResnick

@alranpe the difference is between selective censorship resistance and censorship resistance leader can go offline and drop all txs but cant drop any that they manually choose.

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Max Resnick
Max Resnick@MaxResnick·
@alranpe the difference is between selective censorship resistance and censorship resistance leader can go offline and drop all txs but cant drop any that they manually choose.
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Dorax ⚛️
Dorax ⚛️@dktrpo·
This is backward. Achieving CR with microstructure that doesn’t work is likely 18 months of wasted effort on a product nobody wants. FCFS is the microstructure that always wins, and there’s no theoretical reason it’s not possible with CR- perhaps we should focus on that. Or are you married to “there’s no way to achieve CR, except MCP, focil, tee. This is as certain as the laws of gravity”?
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toly 🇺🇸
toly 🇺🇸@toly·
This is the dumbest argument, and we are all dumber for having to listen to it. Composability is like 80% of the value of one chain. The dumbest outcome would be 100 different fbas that serve no purpose. Fba is in discussion because mcp is the way to achieve CR. If we want CR we need either mcp or tees or focil. Mcp is the best option because it also reduces inclusion latency globally. User to proposer distance is shorter. Mcp needs a merge rule, and the ones that do not suck are equivalent to an fba. There is no point to run an fba in the app after wards. None for 99.99% of the volume that matters.
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Alessandro Decina
Alessandro Decina@alessandrod·
"We still focus on FCFS vs FBA when the truth is that an every purpose chain should be FCFS with FBA at application layer." few
Umberto | Mostly Data 🧙‍♂️@MostlyData_

It's true that 90% of the focus is on validator client, scheduler, and microstructure. The reason is very subtle I think, and that's because despite all evidences no-one is building towards a better Solana. We are still anchored to "revenue driven" mentalities. We do something only if we can earn more. The funny thing is that by doing that we are loosing on other markets. We still focus on FCFS vs FBA when the truth is that an every purpose chain should be FCFS with FBA at application layer. This can be done at app level. FBA or rev strat are still used to create extractive incentives. Do you think a user needs to wait 50ms before executing a simple transfer? No. Do you think an oracle needs to wait 50ms before reflecting on-chain its knowledge? No. I don't see a push towards a better FCFS with FBA at application layer, and this makes everyone still focussed on theoretical work that's not needed anymore. Think about that, what makes HL great for perps? 1. Far more centralized and less distributed than Solana 2. Better control over validators 3. Unique set of rules (scheduler) for every participant under every validator Things like "maker priority" are just fairy tales that one tells oneself to avoid accepting reality. Solana to win needs to have: 1. Control over censoring 2. Unique set of rules for every participant under every validator With these 2 points enforced Solana is already suitable to built a 5x better perp app. N.B.: Pls don't say MCP will solve that, because we need a solution today, not tomorrow. Tomorrow the war is already lost.

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toly 🇺🇸
toly 🇺🇸@toly·
@alessandrod Fcfs with priority fees for inclusion is a Frankenstein. How is mcp supposed to work and deal with spam with fcfs?
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chase
chase@therealchaseeb·
yes. microstructure is not a silver bullet. infra is just table stakes. we need better products, first and foremost. and those products need to understand marketing and distribution. "if you build it, they will come" is a trap mindset. many great technical products have lost to inferior because of it.
mert@mert

talk on solana perps is weirdly mid curve the validator client, the scheduler, and microstructure are 90% of the focus but those, even if executed perfectly (they won't be) are entirely insufficient HL is already the leader to compete, you can't just match what exists, you need to be at least 5x better on a set of dimensions that matter for the end user while also catching up on distribution the non-academic problems are much, much harder to solve for than geeking out on engineering design

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Dorax ⚛️
Dorax ⚛️@dktrpo·
Here’s one model of how it’s possible. It’s definitely also about the threat model and trust assumptions one is willing to accept ofc. For eg FCFS needs a frame of reference, so impossible in a “true distributed” setting. But leader based chains today (solana, ethereum) centralize sequencing anyways, and we can do FCFS in that context with encrypted txns + a proof of elapsed time. x.com/continuumchain…
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João Mendonça
João Mendonça@joaomendoncaaaa·
@MostlyData_ what are the best counter args to fcfs? impossible with mcp? I've seen a bunch of people say it is impossible in practice (trustlessly) and I've just assumed they're probably right some teams have written some papers claiming the opposite I should probably read them I guess
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Umberto | Mostly Data 🧙‍♂️
It's true that 90% of the focus is on validator client, scheduler, and microstructure. The reason is very subtle I think, and that's because despite all evidences no-one is building towards a better Solana. We are still anchored to "revenue driven" mentalities. We do something only if we can earn more. The funny thing is that by doing that we are loosing on other markets. We still focus on FCFS vs FBA when the truth is that an every purpose chain should be FCFS with FBA at application layer. This can be done at app level. FBA or rev strat are still used to create extractive incentives. Do you think a user needs to wait 50ms before executing a simple transfer? No. Do you think an oracle needs to wait 50ms before reflecting on-chain its knowledge? No. I don't see a push towards a better FCFS with FBA at application layer, and this makes everyone still focussed on theoretical work that's not needed anymore. Think about that, what makes HL great for perps? 1. Far more centralized and less distributed than Solana 2. Better control over validators 3. Unique set of rules (scheduler) for every participant under every validator Things like "maker priority" are just fairy tales that one tells oneself to avoid accepting reality. Solana to win needs to have: 1. Control over censoring 2. Unique set of rules for every participant under every validator With these 2 points enforced Solana is already suitable to built a 5x better perp app. N.B.: Pls don't say MCP will solve that, because we need a solution today, not tomorrow. Tomorrow the war is already lost.
mert@mert

talk on solana perps is weirdly mid curve the validator client, the scheduler, and microstructure are 90% of the focus but those, even if executed perfectly (they won't be) are entirely insufficient HL is already the leader to compete, you can't just match what exists, you need to be at least 5x better on a set of dimensions that matter for the end user while also catching up on distribution the non-academic problems are much, much harder to solve for than geeking out on engineering design

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chase
chase@therealchaseeb·
Bro just called Toly a comrade 👀
Dorax ⚛️@dktrpo

@therealchaseeb @MostlyData_ Sure, in FBA Jane street can’t get a better price than retail. But BOTH would get much worse prices than fifo. It’s like communism in trading - equality of worse outcomes.

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Dorax ⚛️
Dorax ⚛️@dktrpo·
@therealchaseeb @MostlyData_ Sure, in FBA Jane street can’t get a better price than retail. But BOTH would get much worse prices than fifo. It’s like communism in trading - equality of worse outcomes.
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chase
chase@therealchaseeb·
@dktrpo @MostlyData_ Fair. But the advantage is with the people with the most money to pay for insane infrastructure. Retail loses
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chase@therealchaseeb·
@MostlyData_ can you explain this? what data? FBA is not what the chain needs...plenty of data to show that. what are the downsides in your opinion.
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Umberto | Mostly Data 🧙‍♂️
> FBA is better than a scheduler war. If its ordered by prio fee per cu, then you now have predictable ordering and makers can finally have a better chance to build quoting strategies. I disagree. You can still play timing games with FBA. This makes ordering unpredictable. You just create a fee war that bring validators more revenue (that's not me, you can see from data...because we already have FBA in place). > FIFO just puts us back to tradfi where the team with the most money and best infra wins. you can have the same with FBA, it's just that everything get more complicated...so what you should have is FIFO for general purpose with FBA at application layer.
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