Koru Language

@iavins It doesn't necessarily mean that and it is probably wrong. You can rewrite to Rust without Rust being bootstrapped in itself. It's not like you cannot target Rust when it's implemented in OCaml.

In the early days, Rust was implemented in OCaml That means Rust was the first project to get rewritten in Rust

@dkubb Healthy take.

Stop asking “Should we rewrite this project in Rust?” and begin asking “Could an AI rewrite this project in Rust if I wanted?”. The baseline you’d set for an effective rewrite to another language would be the baseline for what you’d need for an AI to effectively manage the project now.

@ThePrimeagen 1ms compile-time is nice.

I have reviewed the language and really tried to understand this, but I really do not understand this language's purpose other than engineers with too much free time, free tokens, and a marketing budget. I was very excited to read about a language is "agent's first." Its just zig with a touch of java and rust...

@appfactory @MelkeyDev This looks super cool.

@MelkeyDev here's that zig based microvm that you wanted me to keep you updated on: machinen.dev (Source coming soon)

@NyxXeres @oxcrowx @TheGingerBill I don't want to be too much of a hassle. I thought perhaps you had something that was easy to test with and was a fair comparison.

@korulang @oxcrowx @TheGingerBill Firstly I would consider the way I use go to be non-standard as I avoid interfaces, do as much as possible to avoid it allocating more. And I’m guessing you have used it mostly for backend benchmarking? Fiber isnt bad I guess. I have some performant data analysis CLIs in Go.

"Odin does not have methods as its design philosophy firmly separates data from code. It is Data Oriented." Go is more Data Oriented than Odin. Hell, C++ is more Data Oriented than Odin. Making it difficult to code by not giving users methods, doesn't make Odin "Data Oriented".

Koru v0.1.7 shipped. Notable changes include: - Less permissive formatting, single way to express things - Improved tooling - Robustness korulang.org/blog/v017-rele…

I am really curious to see any actual examples of this that I can run locally and see what the convenience you're paying for is. When I benchmarked Go last, it was closer to `bun` in TechEmpower-benchmark, it doesn't compare in any way favorably to .NET/Actix. I've almost stopped including it in benchmarks because I don't even think there's a point for hotloop-benchmarks, which is typically where you'd see the "data oriented"-cases we're so focused on pay off, but I might be wrong.

@korulang @oxcrowx @TheGingerBill I do have cases where I’ve compared go and Odin implementations, and without the ability to shut off the GC it’s not reasonable to assume you can get close to what can be done in C. It’s a heavy runtime in the end. There is a cost to convenience.

@oxcrowx @TheGingerBill Because I am absolutely certain than within the hour we can get the goalpost moved to "Go wasn't really designed to be fast". But I'd love to be wrong here, of course.

@oxcrowx Do you have any reasonable cases with benchmarks to back up your claims? I've never been able to make Go fast (not really, really fast), and I've tried. It is always in our suite when we benchmark high-performance stuff. I would love to see a single case where Go isn't just outright outperformed in any language, Odin included, without breaking a sweat.

@theo This thing is literally pure cancer at this point. I love Claude but I honestly hate Anthropic.

To prevent "programmatic use", Claude Code may now request webcam access to assure user is present when prompting

@devabram The problem is that there is literally nothing they "should be". So that is a problem.

50% of juniors I have seen in my career probably should not be software developers. They were deeply incurious, no interest in tech nor to understand how things work. Software development makes you use and train your mind for your whole career. That's a brutal thing to do casually. Doing something like that without any real interest is bad for your own life.

Razzie award: @antigravity I don't even fucking care about these things because I have nine others. But that in the living fuck are you guys doing? Let me show you what an agent harness should look like.

If you think Gemini is bad for coding, you might be right. Or you might be using it in @antigravity which is the absolutely worst agent harness ever made by anyone, and it is fucking embarrassing. Let your models do its work, for fuck sake. And let "Plan" actually stop the fucking thing from editing files.

@bradey @JamesRLandrum @ThePrimeagen This was a blatant lie. I tried the fork and it performed a tiny bit faster bit it wasn't deterministic.

@korulang @JamesRLandrum @ThePrimeagen Gotcha, I had just remembered seeing this article but I know it caused undesireable side effects ziggit.dev/t/bun-s-zig-fo…

the result of bun zig -> rust

We at least tried benchmarking it. Sloppily.

@ThePrimeagen In all honesty. The numbers never lie.

@ThePrimeagen I've benchmarked it. Probably EXTREMELY sloppily, but better than speculation. Gist is live: gist.github.com/COCPORN/f161e0…

I tried the fork, because I also need to mass-compile Zig for a regression test suite. I found that it was generously ~4% faster, not 4x. This is because we already parallelize the regression test suite and saturate our cores. You can literally just spawn the compilations in parallel at the OS level. Not at all worth it.

@korulang @JamesRLandrum @ThePrimeagen Wasn't Bun running on a fork of Zig that made Zig compile 4x faster? And Zig would not accept those "enhancements" back into the language? So technically Bun was no longer running on Zig anyway.

@umutkarakoc @ThePrimeagen I have time and money, I'll try to benchmark what makes sense here. I'll start with http performance.

@korulang @ThePrimeagen And performance of what. compile? compiling typescript? bundling? runtime? http? db connection? all? so many questions.

The problem is that Rust is an evolutionary dead-end and Zig is not. Rust made a resource system that doesn't fully work. Zig did not. Rust cannot reasonably change direction on this. Vercel Zero isn't a real language *yet*. But soon you'll be able to build on existing languages in a way that Rust cannot match. Rust is a local maximum.

I feel compelled to give space also to disagreeing opinions. If this (totally based on real data) graphic makes you lose faith in the future of Zig, I strongly encourage you to do what you think is best for you and stop using Zig, no hard feelings :^)