Darrow Au Andromedus

@GeorgiosCanada @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth Orthodoxy came into form after Constantine. Before that there were no vestments, no processions, no incense. Certainly no icons.

@DarrowA6159 @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth

If you read the book of Acts, nothing is more clear than the fact that at the beginning of each religion (Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism), they were diametrically opposed - murderously so on one side. And yet, we're to believe they created a "western world" together?

@UpwardSenility @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth I could make a similar argument about the state of Christendom today.

@DarrowA6159 @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth It wasn't. Anything that calls itself Jewish today, however, is adhering to the Talmud and the Zohar, not God.

@PEnumberTwo @paxtherock @briankeepsworth Paul uses the term circumcision as shorthand for Jewish identity. This is well known. And if a religion of the Jewish messiah who’s King of Israel and will reign from davids throne in Jerusalem, was spread to all nations by Jewish apostles/disciples isnt Jewish then idk what is.

@DarrowA6159 @paxtherock @briankeepsworth Circumcision doesn't mean one is Jewish (females can't get circumcised, and there are female Jews)... but circumcision is still optional for Christians. Christianity is not a subset of Judaism.

@UpwardSenility @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth You talk about Christianity as if it was immediately something different than Judaism in the first century.

@DarrowA6159 @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth The 'Judeo' elements and people were already incorporated into christianity 2,000 years ago. Anyone who still insists on the Judeo part nowadays is trying to play cover for the pharisees evil and perversion.

@GeorgiosCanada @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth Tis not.

@DarrowA6159 @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth incorrect. orthodox christianity is rhe church founded by Jesus Christ and the Apostles.

@INRIYHWH @paxtherock @briankeepsworth If the catholic church is the new Israel, does that mean that God has rejected the Jews?

@DarrowA6159 @paxtherock @briankeepsworth The Messiah was the bifurcation. Descendents of Abraham who received him became the early Christians, the others, who rejected and killed him, were wiped out: surviving sects of Pharisees became modern Judaism, a postchristian religion. The Catholic Church is the new Israel.

@PEnumberTwo @paxtherock @briankeepsworth Paul literally has a rule in all his churches where he says whoever was called while circumcised (Jewish) is not to become uncircumcised (gentile) and any who was called while uncircumcised (gentile) is not to seek circumcision (become Jewish). Jews and gentiles retain identity.

@DarrowA6159 @paxtherock @briankeepsworth The Apostles ceased to be Jewish when Christ resurrected. That's when Christ established His Church. Jews did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah.. the Apostles did. It's impossible to reconcile the two, as if Christianity is a subset of Judaism.

@djudication @briankeepsworth They were first called Christian’s in Antioch. But they were Jews, practicing Judaism, following the Jewish messiah. There is an inherent distinction today, but not really in the first century. What they were doing couldn’t have been more Jewish.

@DarrowA6159 @briankeepsworth I follow what you’re saying, but were they Christians or were they not? Because there is an inherent distinction between the faiths of Judaism and Christianity. I feel like you asking if there even is a distinction is almost a rhetorical question, no offense intended.

@GeorgiosCanada @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth And modern Christianity is not the same Christianity that was given. Judeo Christian expresses the shared values between the two. If Christianity was originally a Jewish sect (which it was) then actually the Judeo is what you really mean by Christian.

@DarrowA6159 @AshMaiz @briankeepsworth there is no such erasure. it is fulfilment. modern rabbinic judaism is not the same judaism that was given a perfect continuation and fulfillment in Christ therefore theres no point in mentioning “judeo” its just christian.

@Redivivus144 @briankeepsworth Do you believe that was all Jews?

@DarrowA6159 @briankeepsworth "His blood is on us and on our children." Sounds pretty collective to me.

@paxtherock @briankeepsworth Correct he was a Jew. He remained a Jew who practiced Judaism after Damascus. This was all in the first century. But Christian then didn’t mean what it means now. Christians were a sect of Judaism at that time.

@DarrowA6159 @briankeepsworth Wasn’t Saul a Jew who sort to kill Christians? Didn’t he have a conversion on the road to Damascus? Was this in the first century?

@djudication @briankeepsworth Those were Jews practicing Judaism who believed the messiah had come. They didn’t stop being Jews or practicing Judaism. Paul’s life revolved around religion the Jewish calendar. He brought sacrifices to the temple. The apostles went to the temple at the hour of prayer. Acts 3:1

@DarrowA6159 @briankeepsworth I believe it was, on the part of Christians professing the divinity of Jesus.

@briankeepsworth Who’s “the Jews”? Surely not the apostles, who were all Jewish. Certainly not all of Jesus other disciples, who were all Jewish. Couldn’t be the thousand of Jews in Jerusalem who believed or all those in the diaspora Paul preached too (Acts 21).

@DarrowA6159 If it wasn't, why were the Jews so opposed to their apostolic efforts?

@AshMaiz @briankeepsworth I get what you’re saying, kinda. The issue seems to be that “Christian” implies an erasure of anything “Judeo”. At least in modern terms. But neither Christ nor the apostles did any such erasing.

@briankeepsworth Any element of "Judeo" that is valid was fulfilled in Christ, hence. There being "Christians"... Judeo-Christian is an incoherent term..

@swamthetiber25 Believers don’t go to heaven or hell after death, so no.

@DarrowA6159 So we can be in heaven with sin but not new earth?

Respectfully Lizzie, there is quite a bit to back up the doctrine of post death purification. As a Protestant I believed in it. Logic requires it. But, since I know you appreciate scripture I will supply that. It's important to remember that purgatory is the process, not a place. It is not a second chance. It is only for those justified, or "saved". It's our final sanctification, a final mercy to be removed from the sin we remain attached to. Without it, we would drag into Heaven the sins we hang on to now. And the Bible is clear that nothing impure will enter heaven (Revelation 21:27), and although we are saved by Christ’s work on the cross, many believers still die with attachments to sin. Logically, if we are sinning or attached to sin at our last breath, and we wake in Heaven without those sins and attachment to sins, something must have changed. Catholics just give it a name. In 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, Paul speaks of this purification process after death. He says that a person’s works will be tested by fire, and even if their works are burned up, they themselves will be saved, but only as through fire. This is not a punishment but a purification. The fire is not to destroy but to refine, removing what is unworthy of entering the presence of God. We see this kind of cleansing in Isaiah 6:6-7. Isaiah cries out that he is a man of unclean lips. Then a seraphim takes a live coal from the altar, touches his mouth with it, and says, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.” It’s a purifying fire that makes him ready for God’s presence. Jesus Himself speaks of purification after death in Matthew 12:32, where He says there are sins that can be forgiven in the “age to come.” This suggests that there is room for further purification after life on earth. In 2 Maccabees 12:38-46. Judas Maccabeus prays for the souls of fallen soldiers who had sinned by wearing pagan amulets. If your prayers can’t help those in Hell, and those in Heaven don’t need them, where are the prayers going? This is seen as an act of intercession, suggesting that there is a state after death where souls can benefit from the prayers of the living. We also see God’s pattern of purifying His people like a refiner’s fire (Malachi 3:2-3; Zechariah 13:9). And Philippians 1:6 promises that He who began a good work in you “will carry it on to completion.” If that completion isn’t fully done by death, it makes sense God finishes it in His mercy before we enter His perfect presence. Historically, the early Church Fathers, including Tertullian, Origen, and Augustine, all spoke of the purification of souls after death, often in the form of prayers for the departed. Ancient Christian tombs are covered in inscriptions like “Pray for us, holy martyr,” or “Peter, remember us,” showing that early Christians believed in prayer for those who had died.

@michaelliyijin @Sacramentshow I’m not either. I’m just showing reasons why it’s not a cut and dry issue. I won’t die on this hill, but immediate heaven or hell after death is not as solid as you think it is. Both sides have support. Good talk, God bless you as well.

@DarrowA6159 @Sacramentshow Man, I’m not trying to play games or force an interpretation. I just think if we stand on sola scriptura, we should at least let passages like Luke 16, Phil 1:23, and Heb 9:27 challenge our framework. I don’t think this exchange is going anywhere, so I’ll leave it here. God bless

Serious question. If the prayers of righteous Christians on earth are powerful, why would the prayers of the righteous who are already perfected in heaven be less powerful? What biblical passage says they stop praying for the Church after entering heaven?

@michaelliyijin @Sacramentshow 2 Corinthians does not say “is”. Paul says he desires to be absent from the body and present with the lord. Philippians doesn’t necessitate that being with Christ means immediate heaven. It can refer to the resurrection. Though I will admit that verse would be your strongest ally

@DarrowA6159 @Sacramentshow Being away from the body is being at home with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8), and to depart is to be with Christ (Phil 1:23). Luke 16 shows conscious comfort and torment before the final resurrection. Final judgment is future, but that doesn’t mean the dead are in no distinct state now.

@michaelliyijin @Sacramentshow You ask a question and assume it’s true in the same tweet? Was your question disingenuous? I don’t think any dead Christian’s are in heaven or hell currently. That would mean sin has been judged already. Is sin judged at the moment of death?

@DarrowA6159 @Sacramentshow Are you saying those who are in heaven still carrying sin - not perfect not righteous? God The Father will allow a sin in His Holy Nation? Man, what you have been indoctrinated🤦‍♂️