JamTart

@Govindtwtt In theory: no jobs means no economy is even necessary. There would be total abundance and therefore no reason to economise on anything.

Everyone says “AI will take all the jobs.” If that happens… how does this future actually work? No jobs → no income → no spending. So who buys things? Who pays rent? Who keeps the economy moving? What am I missing here?

@Richard74565596 @nimlot26 I don't know about that. Does path tracing need to be controlled at a granular level? Isn't what this effectively does? Mimics the result of extremely high quality RT? Why does that need detailed oversight? It's just more accurate in an absolute sense.

@nimlot26 Currently we don't have enough tech info to decide either way. What ends up being a bit disappointing with this stuff so far is The level of control. Until we can control it down to the pixel level it's just a bit of a toy.

People keep sending me Daniel Owen's video which basically states that DLSS5 is an instagram filter because it uses just one frame and a motion vector. While his questions were valid and he actually got the replies he needed, his lack of basic technical understanding took him to the wrong conclusion. A lot of you have a very hard time understanding the basics of how a frame is rendered in your game and what kind of information is available before postprocessing and straight up went to the idea is that a rendered frame is like the screenshot you saved on your disk. @ado_tan and his friends have some amazing breakdowns about how different games render stuff. I suggest you to dive on his blog and check all of them out. This way maybe you will understand a bit more about how games are rendered. Here you have an article he wrote about how GTA5 renders a frame. I'm sure it will be eye opening for a lot of you. Till you do your research...I'll just go and play Crimson Desert.

@AdemFoster @nib95_ PT is just made up lighting too you know. It's all just calculations pal. DLSS 5 is just a way more efficient method for achieving the same (or similar) results.

@JTCoz @nib95_ You are objectively incorrect because DLSS 5 is literally just made up lighting, straight up lower IQ, not worth talking to

Resident Evil Requiem uses path traced lighting, which is THE gold standard in lighting accuracy. If DLSS 5 offers more accurate lighting, why is it showing such drastically different lighting results vs path tracing, which is already accurate? 🤔 Is DLSS 5 potentially highly stylising, glamourising or dramatising the lighting for added impact, at the cost of authenticity and accuracy? Again, we're seeing completely different lighting in areas vs a path traced game; shadowed areas now much brighter and more specular, often losing the moody atmosphere you'd expect from an overcast, wet, glum day with low light and a train track overhead limiting light further, different facial lighting with a weird glow around faces too, new highlights on hair, faces etc. My suspicion is that like with faces, DLSS 5 isn't actually necessarily always more accurate, but instead averaging to what it thinks might be, based on its LLM/data parameters. Thus ironically potentially exaggerating lighting in areas, to being less, not more accurate, and losing some artistic value while doing so. Perhaps @digitalfoundry could answer or investigate. In other non path traced games, differences in lighting are naturally more stark, where with games like Starfield, entire shadows from clothing disappear with DLSS 5, like from the cap in this video example.

@Genki_JPN My God you people really are stupid aren't you?

Grace is supposed to be “an introvert who immerses herself in work” due to suffered trauma Resident Evil Requiem has a high fidelity model viewer in the game where you can see a super detailed model of how she is supposed to look. It does not look like the DLSS 5 version

@datnofact No it's not. It doesn't "average" in that way. It just adds lighting and material detail. The "averageness" comes from the model itself, not DLSS 5. What will happen is that models will be made less generic and more human as fidelity closes in on real life to counter uncanniness.

As amazing as these graphics are they still have a "video game" aesthetic about them that's hard to articulate. Ramping up DLSS5 is going to do to faces what people notice gen AI does a lot, which is create a sort of average that loses distinction, which is more uncanny.

@opinali @Duoae If the game was designed with DLSS 5 in mind they'd just have been more deliberate with her expression to fit such a high fidelity. That's the issue here. It's not inherent to DLSS 5.

@opinali @Duoae It's not. It's just correctly lighting her. The dissonance comes from the crudely lit model the game was designed has an expression adequate for her context, whereas with accurate lighting it doesn't fit so well. It's a problem of backporting changing context, not a tech failure.

Well even Alexdlss Battaglia speaketh - "Grace isn't even the same person... evidence of mascara, lipsticks", he says extra touches are not coming just from the character model or better illumination but from a bigger dataset of stock images in the AI model.

@nib95_ And it's not "shadows disappearing" you idiot, it's correct light bounce data illuminating his face. His face is therefore lit and light eliminates shadow. Moron

@AdemFoster @nib95_ Imagine looking at the PT version and thinking "that's how humans are REALLY lit!" Are you blind? DLSS 5 is maybe 3 generations beyond currently available real time path tracing.

@nib95_ It’s simple, path tracing is real lighting. It’s actual light bounces made by using true to life physicality. DLSS5 is just screen space reflection but immesureably worse because AI isn’t consistent, while being immensely less efficient. And to add on to all that, it’s ugly.

@nib95_ Path tracing in real time graphics isn't even close to CG level PT. That's why there's still a huge boost with DLSS 5 over PT - it's still a fundamentally crude approximation of light behavior. People will argue anything to deny the obvious: DLSS 5 looks fantastic.

@Romudeth This is like arguing that path tracing kills artistic intent by making lighting more realistic. It's a category error. DLSS 5 attempts to make lighting more accurate. It either does that or it doesn't. Argue on those grounds. Artistic intent doesn't come into it.

The people who think "realistic" means "better" don't understand artistic intent. They will never understand why this is bad for games. This will homogenize every title, killing actual artistic vision. This is not something we should champion. Thankfully, the majority of gamers reject this.

@xPXGx @oliemack Is "read the room" idiot-speak for "bow down to the mob"?

@oliemack Man... Holy shit. Read the room. People hate this and rightfully so. It's a glorified AI filter. No self-respecting artist wants this crap destroying and undermining their work. I can't believe you think this looks good or think it's healthy for game development.

Here's some of the DLSS 5 material we saw in the demos but didn't get a chance to film. Here I think you can see the strengths of DLSS 5 - reflections become much more attractive. Starfield doesn't have great lighting to begin with, so the differences can be profound.

@oliemack @HotHardware One thing I noticed is that the RER results are way less dramatic for the environment than Grace. Path tracing seems to do a good if imperfect job on the environment but very poor on human models. Is this a materials thing? Any insight?

@HotHardware Conversely of course, in games that already have stable reflections/shadows/GI, the lighting changes from DLSS 5 demand less screen-space information and will be more stable, but likely will provide a more moderate change or improvement.

@AI_EmeraldApple TBF Rich did cover Hogwarts Legacy so that was actually quite brave. But it's his money on the line now so I suppose that adds a whole new level of pressure. Still disappointing though.

You really can't hate spinless cowards like them. They had a genuine reaction to DLSS 5, and they were excited, and then they are now walking it back because of the backlash. Now they are saying they should have waited until the public opinion was known before issuing their own opinion. What can you expect from a platform that refused to cover Hogwarts Legacy due to backlash from the trans activist boycotts? Remember when John Linneman, Digital Foundry, and Eurogamer publicly refused to touch the game? Yeah, I remember. DF went fully independent but is still doing the same thing. Now, instead of caving to the trans activists, they are caving to the anti-AI mob. It's the same script the mainstream media does when they walk back things... they flinch, hedge, backpedal, then frame it as thoughtful reflection.

@leekern13 @Peston If someone stole your house and put you in prison, would you be aggrieved?

Hey Peston, “Trump and Israeli induced chaos”? I’d posit that Iran funding Hamas and Hezbollah, helping coordinate October 7th, and two years of rocket fire from said Iranian proxies - and directly from Iran itself - are the inducement to chaos? If someone murdered your family and then proceeded to kick you in the balls for two years Peston - would yoj describe is as “Peston induced chaos” when you resolved to fix the situation?

In response to Starmer’s declaration of independence from Trump in relation to the Iran war - his refusal to join offensive strikes against the Islamic theocracy - his ministerial colleagues are both reassured and anxious. “It’s landed quite well with the public, don’t you think?” one said to me. Opinion polls would corroborate, namely that a majority of British people are relieved we are not formal participants in the attacks on Iran itself. And although it is not comfortable for many to hear an American president denigrate a British prime minister as Trump does daily at the moment, the operational co-operation between British and US military and intelligence has not been impaired - or at least not yet. That is what I am told by officials whose only skin in this game is British security, and have no political reason to shore up Starmer. However after two and a half weeks of the Trump and Israeli induced chaos engulfing the Middle East, the impact on our daily lives is not yet tangible - but will be soon enough. Senior members of the government, like me, believe financial and commodity markets are under-pricing the severity of the impact of Iran’s de facto closure of the Strait of Hormuz, the vital supply waterway for oil, gas, fertiliser, helium and so on. The point, as one minister, put it to me, is that tankers that left the Gulf shortly before the war started on 28 February have not yet arrived in Europe - because passage takes between three and five weeks, depending on their size. So Europe has not yet experienced any disruption to physical supplies. But that shock to energy and other supplies is about to hit, and will endure for many weeks, probably months - even if, against all evidence, Trump is able to claim something he can semi-plausibly describe as victory any time soon. Apart from anything else, the threat from Iranian drones and mines in the Strait probably won’t vanish, even if Trump declares his peace, because it is not at all clear that Tehran has central control of all the Iranian militias. The process of rebuilding confidence in the security of the Strait will not be easy. And anyway production facilities in the Gulf that have been switched off can’t be switched on overnight. So although the Business and Energy departments are being reassured by chemicals manufacturers and petrol retailers and other relevant businesses that they won’t run out of vital supplies this week or next, that is obvious and of limited utility. The economic pain is coming. And the only questions are about severity - bad or very bad - and duration. The political point for the PM is it is his responsibility to protect the living standards and quality of life of British people. And even if our looming hardship is largely Trump’s fault, it’s Starmer who will be held accountable by voters for whether he is protecting them appropriately and effectively. It is worth noting that the massive rise in the cost of living in the last parliament was largely the result of Covid and Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, and yet the Tories were massacred at the last election (though of course the incompetence of Truss’s mini budget didn’t help them). This is another way of saying that just as Starmer has acknowledged the UK has a material interest in keeping the peace in Ukraine, if a ceasefire with Putin is ever agreed, the same holds true of the Strait of Hormuz and the UK more generally. But if some kind of stability returns to the Gulf, and British ships and planes are deployed there to maintain that stability, that will be a challenge to the government - because it will seriously deplete military resources available for Ukraine’s “coalition of the willing”, policing the so-called High North of the Arctic and the many other regions vulnerable to conflict and instability. 1/2

@virtual_method @nimlot26 Just 2 5090s! ;)

@JTCoz @nimlot26 True, the Starfield one looks best compared to the original. It doesn’t take much for Starfield characters to look better, though… :D

After this whole debate about DLSS 5 I came to the conclusion that most of the people talking about it are completely unaware of what they don't know...they're on the peak of ignorance and don't even grasp how little they understand. They just heard generative AI and like Pavlov's dog they just start drooling thinking it's the same shit as unethical slop image generators...for the love of Christ...go and educate yourself before raging on the internet for no reason. DLLS 5 is not a prompt based generator...it's not creating stuff based on someone else's images and hallucinates results. It uses the information from the raster to build up a final render frame with the same information but with better lighting and shading... I'll even give you an example on how much of an impact better shading and lighting has. This is a character I've worked on not long ago. On the left you have a raster render, with some bad shaders. On the right you have a render with raytrace on, a much better shader for both hair and skin. They don't even look like the same person...do they? This is what DLSS5 is doing....getting a result like the one on the right(tbh a lot better) at a smaller cost than actually rendering it. Still the same geo, same textures, same light sources. Some of you will go and say the one on the left is better and it's the artist's vision. It's not...it's just the artist's limitation due to shading and lighting constrains. Every single artist out there would love to get the right result in real time.

@virtual_method @nimlot26 I can understand people not liking the RER effect because the game was already hi-fi (other than faces...) and Grace's model has that unfortunate AI slop babe aesthetic anyway, but Starfield, say?? It looks thoroughly improved in every way imo. But each to their own

@JTCoz @nimlot26 Well if you love mac and cheese, it may be unfathomable to you that I don’t. That’s ok. We all perceive things differently. I’m not worried about the technology, I’m worried that most games will end up having mac and cheese on them since I don’t like it- if that makes sense.

@virtual_method @nimlot26 Well, again: proportionality. I don't know how anyone can look at most of these examples and seriously claim they downgrade the overall fidelity. That's just mad. I mean, it's subjective - but that opinion still seems mad.

@JTCoz @nimlot26 My point is that we already know how to do perfect specular highlights, and *very* good direct lighting. We can precisely control placement, color and intensity. So a system that overrides that without offering at least a similar level of control feels like a downgrade to me.

@virtual_method @nimlot26 Isn't there also just a sense of proportion to consider here? Maybe you're right about this particular highlight being inaccurate. Would that REALLY override all the other huge improvements to the image?! Tech doesn't have to perfect in ALL RESPECTS to still be a net good.

@nimlot26 Don't know man. Part of my job involves writing shaders and lighting systems, and this looks quite off to me. It could boil down to subjective/personal preference of course, so let's agree to disagree. I just hope we get something more than an on/off switch.

@Pauliewallnutt @Dee_Batch I think it's because they're all so used to watching AI porn. So they see an admittedly uncannily pretty woman and just think "oh no porn AI slop" and just shut off their brains. Moronic.

@Dee_Batch It's crazy how retarded these people are acting. They don't even understand what it's doing. They seem to think it's changing the model it's not. It's just relighting it.

DLSS 5 haters: "This ruins the devs' artistic character design." Yet DLSS 5 actually looks like her in real life If this is not Virtue signaling, I don't know what is. DLSS 5 is the leap gamers have wanted: photorealism, and y'all are complaining because it's AI? Most wont be able to run it anyway unless you have a 5090 or 5080. You can also turn it off. Gamers mad at progress ffs