Ananth Eleswarapu

328 posts

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Ananth Eleswarapu

Ananth Eleswarapu

@ananthe2

Spine surgeon and lifelong learner.

New York, NY Katılım Haziran 2017
235 Takip Edilen85 Takipçiler
Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@LocasaleLab This is also obviously false in surgery. There are individual surgeons in each subspecialty that can cure disabilities, save lives etc that no one else can. Market does not yet have a way to reward this but it is among the most valuable skills on earth.
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Jason Locasale
Jason Locasale@LocasaleLab·
In science and engineering there is no question that power law distributions exist with elite performers who are clearly distinguishable. The claim that practicing physicians do not require exceptional talent may or may not be true, but the so-called elite medical schools claim to distinguish themselves through their research and innovation. Applicants go there because the research opportunities are supposedly better. At that point, these students are essentially training to become scientists and engineers within health related fields.
Entropium@type1ayy

@devahaz @LocasaleLab @loobah_l The really hot take if you want one is that medicine isn’t generally a field of power laws so the return from focusing on right tail talent is exponentially lower than in engineering, finance, or athletics

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Sebastian Caliri
Sebastian Caliri@SebastianCaliri·
Dozens of laws indirectly constrain healthcare innovation. This mammography example is one - requiring a person to read and sign off. Another one: diabetic retinopathy screening by humans counts for HEDIS quality measures. Using AI to screen a retinal image? Maybe! These quality measures relate to how much the government pays providers as well as health plans. Not a minor thing. (Because I agree with the main point I will ignore the egregious VC negging, I think everyone is aware this is an issue)
Grant Hesser@GrantHesser

VCs are quite sure that AI is going to quickly take over healthcare - unfortunately it's slightly more complicated than that - and a bill introduced in Congress last month is a good window into why. Mammography is one of the cleanest cases for autonomous AI in medicine. Mature models, a well-defined task, structured data, and an overwhelming case for taking humans out of the loop - radiologist shortage, missed cancers, expanding access. It's also illegal. The Mammography Quality Standards Act - the federal statute governing every mammography facility in the US - requires that each report be interpreted and signed by a human physician. No human, no legal read. H.R. 8526 was introduced last month by Rep. Schweikert to fix this. The entire substantive change is six words: "physician who" becomes "physician, or a machine-learning or AI system, that," and the requirement that the report be signed by the interpreting physician is struck. That's it. One statute, one modality, one bill - sitting in the Energy and Commerce committee, plausibly years from becoming law, if ever. Now multiply that by every modality, every specialty, every state medical practice act, every CMS reimbursement code, every malpractice precedent. That is the actual surface area of "AI disrupting healthcare." The models being good is the easy part. The hard part is the law and fighting all the entrenched interests that have plenty at stake not seeing things change.

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Sean X. Luo MD PhD
Sean X. Luo MD PhD@seanluomdphd·
@SurgeryCenterOK There are some opposing forces. Medicare wants to do site neutral very badly. Hospitals don’t. Physician groups want to own hospitals but there are CON laws in place and MSOs want to hold leverage by regulatory capture. Physician groups need to sue more.
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Surgery Center of OK
Surgery Center of OK@SurgeryCenterOK·
Great post. I wonder how much higher the 75% figure goes if academic physicians 15 years ago are not considered, as they've traditionally been employed & prior to the policy discussed here. GKS
Kevin Pho, M.D.@kevinmd

Fifteen years ago, 75 percent of US physicians were in private practice. Today, around 25 percent are. That is not market evolution. That is a policy outcome. Hospitals are paid 2 to 3 times more than independent practices for the same office visit. For echo and MRI, 3 to 5 times more. Same physician work. Same diagnosis. Different check, because the door has a hospital logo on it. Then layer the prior auth burden. The typical small practice now runs about 40 prior auths a week. Generic medications that did not require approval five years ago now require approval. Every MRI requires approval. Most denials are algorithmic, with no specialist on the other end who can actually override anything. Then layer MIPS, MACRA, and the 2013 Misvalued Code Initiative that cut reimbursements for office-based echo and EMG by more than 50 percent while leaving hospital-employed physicians shielded. The result, per neurologist Scott Tzorfas on The Podcast by KevinMD, is that wait times in his area now run six to nine months for a specialist and close to a year at the academic hospitals. Not because there are too few doctors. Because the small offices that used to absorb that volume have been driven into hospital systems where payment is higher and overhead is somebody else's problem. He proposes site-neutral payment, repealing the restrictions on physician-owned hospitals, and applying the qualified business income deduction to physician practices. Reverse the financial incentives that bent the field, and the field bends back. There is also a perverse premium incentive baked into the ACA. Insurance profits are capped at 15 to 20 percent of premiums, but that is a percentage cap, not a dollar cap. Higher hospital prices push premiums up, which pushes the dollar value of that 15 to 20 percent up too. The system is paying more for the same work and calling the result a market. The structural fix is not complicated. The structural will is what is missing. Search "The Podcast by KevinMD" wherever you listen to podcasts. Link in the replies. What policy lever would actually pull more clinicians back into independent practice? #ThePodcastbyKevinMD

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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@SurgeryCenterOK A lot of jobs nowadays are employed non-academic. All of the downsides of private practice - pressure to be "productive", need to build your own referrals - with none of the autonomy or financial upside. And no meaningful research or teaching on involvement.
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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@nikillinit What qualifies something as integrative though? If it is well supported by evidence it just becomes normal medical care
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Nikhil Krishnan
Nikhil Krishnan@nikillinit·
IMO anecdotally healthcare system really loses younger people for the following reasons (partially because there aren't that many interventions you can really offer) - Pain - low-moderate severity GI issues - low-moderate level systemic inflammatory issues Those people end up looking for alternative healthcare routes, some legitimate and some not. Would be interesting to see more health systems expand into functional/integrative medicine for some of these patients.
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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@KelseyTuoc @ZachWritesStuff Most patients in the United States have to wait to get an MRI though. Insurance companies usually require a 6 week exercise program prior to MRI. And when that's completed and documented you then need to apply for prior auth. 9 weeks would be typical here.
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Kelsey Piper
Kelsey Piper@KelseyTuoc·
@ZachWritesStuff Now, maybe you think it's far worse to pay $1200 than to have a three month wait! Surely it depends what you need the MRI for. But yes, the systems are suboptimal in different ways.
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Jason Ryan
Jason Ryan@jasonryanmd·
What’s the point of testing super detailed memorization on medical boards in the age of AI and smart phones? I can look up that the sandfly is the vector of leishmaniasis in 20 seconds. Why test whether students have this memorized? We force trainees to spend hours memorizing factoids instead of learning other things that would benefit patients and the medical profession more. Am I missing some benefit of memorization in the modern era?
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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@DrDiGiorgio Don't they make higher margins on non-insurance products? Maybe insurance is a loss leader for things like PBM, data analytics products, utilization review services etc
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Nikhil Krishnan
Nikhil Krishnan@nikillinit·
IMO most of US healthcare would be fixed* if we did a few simple things 1) divorce employers from providing health insurance 2) Use a price setting mechanism that was transparent (government setting prices or price transparency) 3) Everyone in one risk pool (e.g. on the exchanges, single payer, etc) *fixed in the sense that you would be making tradeoffs between cost, quality, and access to care - but at least those tradeoffs would clearer
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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@mcuban @BradSpellberg How do you know this to be true? There are reasons a hospital would accept Medicaid even at a negative contribution margin.
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Mark Cuban
Mark Cuban@mcuban·
What are your profit margins for commercial contracts with the biggest 3 ins carriers ? Unless you’re turning away commercial patients because of Medicaid , you are making contribution margins from it. Unless, possibly, you buy implants , devices etc at ridiculous prices via your GPO
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Mark Cuban
Mark Cuban@mcuban·
Appreciate it. A couple reasons why we disagree. Most don’t know if their commercial insured business is profitable by carrier. But that’s a topic for another day. Most hospital assets/caregivers (surgeons and some others that get paid per surgery, etc , excepted ), are like a seat at an nba game, perishable. Hospitals pay for it whether it’s used or not. Unless everything is sold, the care/caid patient is all margin contribution - rcm %. Then there is 340b margin created by those patients, especially if you are in a state that makes the state pay full WAC. Then there is DSH and other state/federal contributions. Don’t look at each care event as what determines whether those patients are profitable. Look at it as whether the hospital is more or less profitable accepting those patients. I would bet they are more profitable I’m here to learn. So feel free to correct any of this As far as regulation compliance. It’s a cost for sure. The far greater cost is the cost of compliance and dealing with commercial payers. The amount they underpay, late pay, delay, deny, the cost of peer to peers and the games they play forcing to their PBMs , game brokers and consultants , TPAs and other subsidiaries , cost hospitals and sponsors far more
Breedlove@Breedlove2019

The patient mix is important to understand: charity care, Medicare/Medicaid, insured, self-pay. Only one of those covers actual costs. I think I've seen you also dismiss the affects of regulation and how that has raised costs exponentially. For example, the rapid increase in non-medical staff to monitor and keep organizations in compliance. For a start. I say all this with only the deepest desire to see our healthcare system fixed, which I believe is what you want to help with.

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Sebastian Caliri
Sebastian Caliri@SebastianCaliri·
The two topics are linked. Because fee for service billing makes little sense for many AI native care models (e.g. more continuous, and often will feature asynchronous engagement with a physician), this topic opens the door for a broader discussion of reimbursement and incentives.
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Sebastian Caliri
Sebastian Caliri@SebastianCaliri·
How much manufacturing are we bringing back to the United States if healthcare costs for blue collar workers grow 20% each year? Lots of talk of re-industrialization in Silicon Valley, but very little of the real constraints healthcare puts on small / medium-sized employers. I was speaking in Michigan last week and 20% cost inflation is the reality for one furniture manufacturer. Similar stories for many firms throughout the Midwest. Can AI help? Policy in the next year or two will dictate the outcome: regulation at FDA / states; reimbursement norms from CMS. But 1/3 Americans already use AI chat bots for medical advice and it is cynical to believe there is no potential to build upon.
Sebastian Caliri tweet media
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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@dvasishtha I actually don't see why your PCP couldn't fix this for you. A big problem is that the EMR is built as a structured database which may not be necessary anymore now that we have LLMs that can understand unstructured text.
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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@dvasishtha There is no significant liability in correcting an error in the chart. There could even be liability in leaving it there, if a patient received a suboptimal antibiotic for an infection due to an allergy history everyone knew was false...
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Dhruv Vasishtha
Dhruv Vasishtha@dvasishtha·
Banal reason healthcare is broken: if a provider ever documents a mistake in your chart, it can be almost impossible to get it fixed. My wife went to an old PCP nearly 20 years ago and mentioned that her father has a penicillin allergy. She has never had any issue herself. The doctor documented her as having a penicillin allergy. For the next two decades, every ED or inpatient visit has involved questions about “her penicillin allergy,” what reaction she had, and what antibiotic alternatives she needs. Every time she asks for it to be corrected, the care team says they can’t because they didn’t enter the original note and don’t want the liability. So the only real path is to track down the original PCP and hope they still have access to the record. The deeper issue is that the system of record in healthcare is built first for billing, compliance, and legal defensibility, not for keeping the patient’s story accurate for care. And this is why interoperability alone is not some clean fix. If there’s no real ownership of data correction, all you do is make one bad fact portable, durable, and instantly available everywhere. At scale, interoperability can just mean cascading a mistake to many sites of care.
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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@f3nring @s0ymalia @MostlyMonkey As far as how many people start surgical residencies and then end up doing something else, I've never seen official statistics but anecdotally I'd say its more than people think. Maybe half the gen surg residents from my intern year ended up doing something else.
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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@f3nring @s0ymalia @MostlyMonkey I'm not an expert in law but I don't think stepping off the partnership track is necessarily failing out. A lot of people leave to do lucrative rewarding things elsewhere (like being in house counsel at a tech company)...
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Overeducated Gibbon
Overeducated Gibbon@MostlyMonkey·
Top lawyers are a far more.elite group than neurosurgeons. The difference is that the selection is less legible and more gradual. The 170 lsat (call it top 3% of college grads) is just the start of a 20 year-long process that screens out the vast majority of the remainder.
Joseph Younis, MD@YounisJoseph

@philipammar It doesn’t matter. We can standardize the measure by looking at hour adjusted rates. Top lawyers are $1,200-2,000+. Show me a doctor who charges that

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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@s0ymalia @MostlyMonkey Its hard to get a second job though without a good reference from your first. Ironically the people who leave and do something else often end up happier and richer than most surgeons.
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Ananth Eleswarapu
Ananth Eleswarapu@ananthe2·
@s0ymalia @MostlyMonkey This may be true for non-surgical specialties. Its definitely not true for surgery. I know several people that were politely advised to stop operating by colleagues. I suppose if you completely lack self awareness you could try moving to another town and starting over...
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