Timothy

Before: Inconsistent lifting Under eating Incline treadmill walking After: @SS_strength NLP Calorie surplus No cardio (I know my legs look small, but I swear I’m squatting 🤣 I’ve added 65lbs to my squat)

@Larsen1T @JeffN_Clasher I didn’t say you said that lol But you’re right, the statement could be said by many people. Thoughtful observation.

@TimReeves_ @JeffN_Clasher Please point to where I said you have to be an atheist to believe what you said. I said you sound like one.

I’ve never… read the Book of Mormon. been to a Mormon church. read a book about Mormonism. But… I occasionally house sit for my Mormon neighbors. Their living room wall has 3 statements of faith. None align with the statements of faith my Christian Church holds.

@pillarbynight Okay 👍

@TimReeves_ I'm not playing your Satanic little mind game. You and I both know what I'm talking about.

It's incredible to see the lying spirit that overcomes people when the subject of the Latter-day Saints comes up. Trins are just little hand puppets for Satan

@Larsen1T @JeffN_Clasher What’s a retarded thing to say? That the Mormon Jesus doesn’t exist? I don’t have to be an atheist to believe that. Mormons are the only ones who believe the Mormon Jesus existed. I’m protestant, why would I believe in another god?

@TimReeves_ @JeffN_Clasher That is a singularly retarded thing to say. What are you expecting to accomplish with that? You sound like 2009 reddit atheist, you should feel bad.

@jonathanplumb Okay. 👍

@TimReeves_ Sure, as long as you’re okay with being wrong. Just because you’ve never read your Bible doesn’t mean our beliefs aren’t in it or derived from it. This isn’t rocket science. Struggle away! Agree to disagree, it is.

Well…I don’t know what to say. I’m not a bot. You’ve devoted a lot of time here and I appreciate it. Few of the other Mormons in the comment section have been willing to continue abs honest open conversation. Let me do this. I’ll take your points one by one here. You say: I understand your point that you are trying to get at, but I fear you don't truly understand my point and that is ok. My response: Maybe I don’t I certainly feel like I did. Your major point was Protestants and Mormons both produced good fruit, so what’s the point in getting caught up in the details of who God is if in the end both basically produce the same result. Does that sound about right? You say: The old testament is, in fact, not full of people abiding by the commandments of God and yet being condemned anyways. I would love for you to give me a solitary example of a person fully living the commandments of God but directing his worship towards the wrong God and God condemning him because of that. It doesn't exist. My response: I didn’t say the OT was full of people abiding by the commandments of God. I said “The Old Testament is filled with examples of people who were religious, sincere, and zealous, yet God condemned them because they directed their worship incorrectly.” Of course I’m not going to give you an example of anyone whom full lived the commandments of God except Jesus. My point wasn’t about keeping the commandments, it was about misdirected worship, the subject of the conversation. — This is where we are really going to run into disagreement. I’m going to tackle these next ones together. 👇 You say: God isn't going to condemn someone who is earnestly striving to do what His Son Jesus Christ taught, just because they misunderstood His nature. Maybe it escaped you also, but I obviously believe that the God I believe in is the right one, which in turn, would mean that your idea of God was "incorrect" with regards to my beliefs. (That did not escape me, that’s why we’re having the conversation.) My argument is that, even you, who by my opinion is mistaken in your understanding of the nature of God, would still be entirely loved and accepted by God despite said mistaken view of God's nature. Imagine you ended up in front of God after striving your entire life to love and know Him. After following His Son Jesus and preaching His word. Do you really believe that God would send you to Hell because you truly believed His nature was different than it truly was? I don't believe in a God like that. If that is the type of God you believe in, then I guess you are right, we don't believe in the same God. I believe in a God who truly and deeply knows me and loves me. A God who sees my heart and my intentions and my desires and judges me based off of that and doesn't condemn me to an eternity of suffering simply because I didn't fully understand His nature. My response: There is a lot here ☝️ and I’m going to do the best I can to take what you said, respond without misrepresenting you. There’s a lot of theology in what you said and I want to make sure I do it justice. I’m running out of characters, so I’ll start another response.

It really feels like your responses are AI, the way you are starting your responses feel like a bot, the way you conclude them feel that way as well. I understand your point that you are trying to get at, but I fear you don't truly understand my point and that is ok. The old testament is, in fact, not full of people abiding by the commandments of God and yet being condemned anyways. I would love for you to give me a solitary example of a person fully living the commandments of God but directing his worship towards the wrong God and God condemning him because of that. It doesn't exist. God isn't going to condemn someone who is earnestly striving to do what His Son Jesus Christ taught, just because they misunderstood His nature. Maybe it escaped you also, but I obviously believe that the God I believe in is the right one, which in turn, would mean that your idea of God was "incorrect" with regards to my beliefs. My argument is that, even you, who by my opinion is mistaken in your understanding of the nature of God, would still be entirely loved and accepted by God despite said mistaken view of God's nature. Imagine you ended up in front of God after striving your entire life to love and know Him. After following His Son Jesus and preaching His word. Do you really believe that God would send you to Hell because you truly believed His nature was different than it truly was? I don't believe in a God like that. If that is the type of God you believe in, then I guess you are right, we don't believe in the same God. I believe in a God who truly and deeply knows me and loves me. A God who sees my heart and my intentions and my desires and judges me based off of that and doesn't condemn me to an eternity of suffering simply because I didn't fully understand His nature.

@jonathanplumb We can agree to disagree. 🤙

@TimReeves_ Those are all in the Bible. 🤡

@TableTopLiberty @_Not_JamesBond_ You would say “He’s the second person of the Trinity, the one born in Bethlehem”?

@TimReeves_ @_Not_JamesBond_ Its not that we define him differently. There are some things we believe differently about Him, but its the same that came to Earth to save us. You take the differences and say its an entirely different Jesus, but its the one that was born in Bethlehem etc.

@OshawottEpic @_Not_JamesBond_ Our (Protestant) definition is “The son of God, the second person of the Trinity, who suffered and died for our sins, then resurrected after 3 days.” Is that yours?

@TimReeves_ @_Not_JamesBond_ If you're definition isn't "The son of God, who suffered and died for our sins, then resurrected after 3 days" then sure, we define Jesus differently

@lhawkes @_Not_JamesBond_ The definition is His nature determines only matters if it aligns with reality. If it doesn’t align with reality, then you’re talking about someone who doesn’t exist.

@TimReeves_ @_Not_JamesBond_ Whether He is consubstantial with the Father and the Holy Spirit or of the same essence or rather one in purpose doesn't change His mortal purpose to overcome death and sin. That's still the same regardless of your definition of His nature.

Thanks for the comment FL. I think you’re touching on a good point here. There is only one Jesus and we (protestants) don’t believe your (Mormon) Jesus is it. When you say “He died for each of us” the “He” has a different meaning then when I say “He died for each of us.” We’re talking about 2 different “He’s” and we can’t both be right.

@TimReeves_ @_Not_JamesBond_ Sounds like a you problem. Why do you so called “Christians”believe you’re entitled to pigeon hole Jesus Christ into whatever YOU believe Him to be? Do not realize how ridiculous this sounds?“Your Jesus is not MY Jesus.” He died for each & every one of us. There is only 1 Jesus!

@jonathanplumb Um. I’m not lying. This is what they had in their wall: amzn.to/4uU7Xci

@TimReeves_ Bro. There are literally no Latter-day Saint statements of faith that aren’t found in the Bible, moron. So either you’re a LIAR (my bet) or you don’t realize the actual religion of the house you were in. Yeah. Liar.

@Larsen1T @JeffN_Clasher Hear what? That the Mormon Jesus doesn’t exist?

@TimReeves_ @JeffN_Clasher Where do you people hear these things?

@AccountEnomics Not at all

@TimReeves_ This is called engagement farming

@SladeTheGuy @JeffN_Clasher Your doesn’t exist. Can’t die if you don’t exist.

@TimReeves_ @JeffN_Clasher Wait, ours never died? Was our Jesus immortal?

@NutlawPete @Luke_ehM @JeffN_Clasher Do you believe in one God? I’m pretty confident Mormons believe there are three separate divine beings. 3 Gods. Not one God.

@TimReeves_ @Luke_ehM @JeffN_Clasher Even your Nicene creed calls them three persons. You believe in one God in three persons. We believe in three persons in one God. That's a silly reason to hate us.

You do like your analogies. I respect that. Jesus taught in parables. You’re right that the two questions are deeply intertwined. Especially since the first commandment is: “You shall have no other gods before Me.” And Jesus echoes this when He says: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” This indicates to me that before God asks for anything from us, He first demands that we: 1. Know who He is 2. Direct our worship toward Him alone So if we want to talk about fruits of the faith, we have to talk about worship. Does the fruit of the faith produce worship of the correct God and Him alone? Because from a biblical perspective, the greatest commandment is not merely to be moral, loving, sincere, or even fruitful. The greatest commandment is to love and worship the Lord. That means the identity of God cannot be separated from the discussion. After all, a person can be sincere and still worship the wrong god. A person can be moral and still worship the wrong god. A person can even display admirable virtues and still worship the wrong god. The Old Testament is filled with examples of people who were religious, sincere, and zealous, yet God condemned them because they directed their worship incorrectly. So I’m gonna be honest with you, NJB, from my perspective, Mormonism does not produce the proper worship of the right God. Which is probably the most important fruit of all. I know this is a nuanced discussion, but are you tracking with what I’m saying?

I guess for me the two questions are deeply intertwined. Do we or can we truly know a person by their physical description? We can know what they look like, their size and shape, we can understand their biology, but it doesn’t truly tell us anything about the person in a meaningful way. To truly know a person we must talk to them or hear them speak or in some way understand how they think, what they value, what they want or what they need, how they interact with people and how they treat them. It is only in doing this that we can understand both the philosophy and the fruits of a person and their actions. At that point we can judge whether a person is someone who is worth listening to or following or bringing into our lives. You see caught up on the former description. I’m more interested in the fruits of the God you believe in vs the God I believe in. Pretend we had never seen a peach tree before and someone handed each of us a peach. We both look at it and agree that it is the same fruit and it is delicious. But we start to disagree about what the tree looks like. Ultimately it doesn’t change the peach, what it tastes like, looks like, feels like, or how the tree produces the fruit. I asked those questions because if we can agree on the fruits that we believe come from each of our Gods. If we can see that they are in fact the same fruit. Then perhaps knowing whose idea of what the tree physically looks like doesn’t much matter? I believe that what God wants from us and for us is the paramount question that defines His existence and the entire reason for being a God worth worshiping and following. If what He wants for us and from us is something we can agree on, then I think it’s safe to say it’s the same God even if we don’t agree on the vision we have of what precisely that God may look like

@ByuSome @Azazello1313 LOL

The gospel of Jesus Christ. You have to argue away and ignore so much of what Jesus and the New Testament says then. Have fun with that! "Don't worry, just go break the ten commandments! Doesn't matter! You were baptized and have thoughts that Jesus is real! You're saved! You're covered! It's all good! Steal away!"

@Seansimmans Correct. 🤙

@TimReeves_ Now I'm thinking of a soccer player who shows up at the Cowboys' AT&T Stadium. "I'm a football player," he says. "No, that's a soccer ball." "Well, I call it a football." "Maybe you do. But you're playing a wholly different game." "Agree to disagree."

@ByuSome @Azazello1313 It’s part of the Mormon gospel…

@Azazello1313 @TimReeves_ Works are part of the gospel. That's in the Bible. It's not an either-or.