I'm not good at articulating myself but I tried to explain what I meant in this post

@michaelbomb_ OP it seems like everyone in the replies is explaining the point DR is trying to make with this back at you thinking you "don't get it" when you do get it and just don't like it

@michaelbomb_ I think I understand the confusion, You're thinking about being violent in deltarune as its own entirely separate route when it isn't Recruits are a form of collectable, being violent is missing out on them. It is not a separate line on the chart, it's side A or side B only

@michaelbomb_ Idk about that, I think that Deltarune was designed with the idea of the first run being one where you do try and get all the recruits. The game constantly tells you to do it and it gives you a check list. It wants you to do that, unlike UT, where pacifist is clearly secondary

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@michaelbomb_ Deltarune fans really believe that saying “your choices don’t matter” and leaving it there is enough to constitute a major story theme and think it exempts the game from getting criticized about how it handle player choice and options because it’s the narrative and stuff

@michaelbomb_ there is 0 reason for the player to do a no recruits run. ACTing is a lot more fun and the game treats 0 recruits the same as full recruits aside from darkners missing from castle town. Its like they didnt know what to do and sparing only exists because people came from UT

@michaelbomb_ Yeah the no recruit runs feel just so hollow? Like there are some dialogue changes like queen being depressed but the main story can’t/won’t diverge so like if i’m on a no recruit run castle town is really just a ghost town even more than normal

@michaelbomb_ it bugged me how the game wouldn't even let you fight half of ch5 bosses with violence, why even bother with having the attack button at this point

@michaelbomb_ the game expects you to act because it assumes you already played and completed undertale (which is all about not killing) so instead of violence being an actual route (which worked with the themes of ut), now it is just a way to receive less content+

@michaelbomb_ undertale also lacks a ton of content if you play it like a regular rpg (kill all enemies but don't go out of your way to grind). few fun characters last and then your ending is sans just tells you to fuck off i'd say it's a weakness for both games

@michaelbomb_ You're not wrong. Toby has talked about the ACT/FIGHT system feeling vestigial in his chapter 1 post mortum write-up. Recruits and growing stronger seemed to be the solution he came up with but it's obvious which one is "intended". Even the secret bosses are the same after ch 2

@michaelbomb_ I don't think neutral is the intended first route for deltarune, since it's advertised as being for people who "completed" undertale. They expect you to spare everyone from the beginning since you're used to how undertale works. And ralsei asks you directly to spare everyone.

@michaelbomb_ It actually kinda did tho Think of sans' absence if you kill papyrus, the areas designed around sans are just kinda there in the game, and his theme just doesn't play anymore (even for no good reason like blook farm) Or grillby is just empty if you kill the dogs

@michaelbomb_ I did no recruits because I found the changes it did have from Pacifist interesting in Chapters 2, 3, and 4. Berdly's arm fries and Queen becomes depressed, Tenna stays broken and doesn't even get thrown out, and Jackenstien dies in a pretty emotional moment.

@michaelbomb_ That's why Chapter 1 exists. You can fight and they'll be recruited anyways, but when you play Chapter 2, The game says that, those who are defeated by violence can not be recruited, BUT you'll get stronger... Also this

@michaelbomb_ "Neutral is what a new player would play first" I wholeheartedly disagree! You are intended to play Undertale first. You would know by now that mercy is an option. It makes no sense to say most Deltarune players wouldn't know this. You'd have to skip Undertale and be 100% blind!

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@michaelbomb_ Recruiting exists as a system to reward content and the game is pretty open about it being a existing system. If you don't want to do it then you don't get the reward, you are not entitled to content for playing wrong

@michaelbomb_ One other thing I'd like to add here is that combat in Mercy playthroughs feels much less interesting than in Violent playthroughs, since you don't have the gameplay loop of getting rewarded with TP for playing well, allowing you to speed up the fight with Rude Buster 1/2

@michaelbomb_ especially when the first chapter felt like a matured sequel to UNDERTALE, wherein the big baddie at the end genuinely could not be reasoned with, and trying to be nice to him and make peace was to the gang’s active detriment because it almost got them all killed.

@michaelbomb_ Man people are really dense huh Undertale makes a Neutral run be its own experience different from a Pacifist run Deltarune just straight up has less content in a non-Weird Violence route Speaking from the point of a videogame, it's objectively worse than Undertale in that sense

@michaelbomb_ i personally think there should just be more sad reactions to shit like. not having recruits in castle town its sad to see queen so lonely, but maybe susie and ralsei should actually show some disappointment that 'damn, i guess we've hardly befriended anyone... huh'

@michaelbomb_ I think I disagree that neutral is what the game incentivizes you to do first for Deltarune. Ralsei immediately tells you not to fight, and Susie learns over the course of Chapter 1 that fighting isn't a good solution to every problem. Recruits don't matter until after that.

@michaelbomb_ I don't really get the complaint. You do not kill anyone unless you go down the weird route, and thus the violence is not really important as a narrative element past chapter 1. This isn't a story about pacifism so it makes sense that the differences for fighting are minimal.

@michaelbomb_ the game doesnt think you'll play a specific way, theres a story happening around you. recruiting everyone is how castle town gets full, but the if you recruit no one, they are still taking important characters with them, you just have an emptier town

@michaelbomb_ I agree. The fight button feels like a strange holdover from Undertale, which is especially odd given Fox’s commentary in the Deltarune FAQ about fighting. Funnily enough of the 3 battles where you fight (King, Titan, Knight), in 2 you spam Rude Buster through the ACT menu anyway

@michaelbomb_ yeah i felt this playing through a "violent" route. you can't even have a "true" no recruit run because of lanino and elnina. they dont react at all to you fighting them & they have enough HP to tank multiple snowgraves.

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@michaelbomb_ I'm so mad that you can't meaningfully violence basically anything in Chapter 5 even on an aborted weird route. For every other chapter, you can violence the main boss, the secret boss, and everything else, but in Chapter 5, Susie and for some reason Ralsei deny you that.

@michaelbomb_ I’m really trying to understand, but it just feels like you’re saying “my issue isn’t that your choices don’t matter, my issue is that it feels like nothing was made to feel any different if I make different choices” and that feels like a distinction without a difference

@michaelbomb_ getting mad that this one game isn't exactly the same as this other different game. this specific difference between the games is the point. You can either do all recruits or no recruits, the story doesn't change and thats on purpose

@michaelbomb_ imo why even do a no recruits run atp? i will never do it because its just more boring and less content

@michaelbomb_ my other thought you see Recruit/not recruit and think of UT's Fight/Mercy. it's not that. DR says you Fight OR Act to SPARE. Recruiting is if you want to go out of your way for extra, not the game hinting not doing so is a choice with big consequences.

@michaelbomb_ Very bold of you to assume average deltarune fan can read or comprehend the criticism on the game design.

@michaelbomb_ To explain further, its like if Undertale didn't have the alt neutral endings/interactions from killing/sparing enemies. The game still reacts to choices, i.e sparing/killing certain bosses vs. DR where if you aren't on weird route, it plays exactly the same recruitless.

@michaelbomb_ Bit ridiculous to criticize the game for this when its all speculation and the game isn't fully out yet imo

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@michaelbomb_ To be fair, neutral is not at all what a new player would assume, because the game literally threatens in chapter 2 that it will throw a fit and ruin your save if you ever use the fight button again. It's the "why would you ever do this" route, it only exists by obligation.