John

Other New Testament books were written *after* Revelation. Should we exclude them? No, because the verse was not meant to close the canon, which hadn't yet been agreed anyway. God is able and expected to continue speaking through prophets He calls, as He always has. P.S. Good news! The Book of Mormon text was written before the New Testament was, so it could still be included even if Revelation 22 was meant to close the canon.

Context and logic…Deuteronomy 4:2 (and 12:32) commands: “You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it…Moses was not forbidding all future prophecy—he was guarding the specific commands God had just given Israel through him. The principle against adding to or subtracting from God’s revealed word appears multiple times in Scripture, Prov. 30:5-6: “Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you…” So how do we know the OT is legit? Jesus and the apostles later treated the entire Old Testament as a finished, unbreakable collection (Luke 24:27&44; John 10:35). Revelation 22:18-19 says: “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them… God will add to him the plagues…” Revelations is a recap of the whole story in God’s poetic symbolism. Christ revealed, from beginning to end. Written by the last living apostle (John). It restates the principle of not adding to or subtracting from God’s inspired Word that was handed down from the apostolic age. The New Testament canon was recognized gradually by the early church—not invented centuries later. Core books (Gospels, Acts, most of Paul’s letters) were widely accepted and used as authoritative Scripture by the mid-to-late 2nd century. There’s evidence of this…Muratorian Fragment, Irenaeus, Eusebius. The apostles were the final, eyewitness foundation-layers Christ appointed (Ephesians 2:20; Revelation 21:14). No one after them received that direct commission and therefore has authority.

False! Though to be fair, Jacob didn't correct this fully in the conversation. Here are 3 things Allie misses when she claims we believe only LDS members can be exalted. 1. D&C makes it clear the dividing line between kingdoms is "the testimony of Jesus" 2. It's also clear from the Bible and restoration scripture that everything will be revealed in the afterlife. For example everyone will know Jesus is the Christ (every knee shall bow) 3. Priesthood ordinances are available in the afterlife Put these together and it becomes clear that sincere disagreement with the Church will not keep anyone from heaven. We aren't like the Christians who treat life as a theology quiz. Nobody is going to be getting tricked into false theologies. Of course the danger is that rebellion against God is real, not everyone who rejects the restored gospel does so out of sincere misunderstanding. But it's not for us to adjudicate who is who.

@M_Sorentino Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned The Bible emphasizes baptism clearly in a number of places.

“The man on the middle cross said I could come…” The issue with all of this is that the thief on the cross was never baptized, didn’t know anything about any sort of priesthood, and yet…

@fruitfulgraceco @LukeFHan If this interpretation were correct, we should reject everything after Deuteronomy (specifically 4:2). Latter-Day Saints seek to not take away from God's word by following what Jesus taught in the Bible, where He gave religious authority, an organized hierarchy, baptism, etc.

A new argument…it’s all saying God’s Word is perfect and complete, don’t add to it. God the Father was once a man who progressed to godhood. A priesthood authority other than Christ. Ordinances needed for exaltation in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. The book of mormon having spiritual authority, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price. Ongoing revelation via living prophets that are not in God’s Word. The Great Apostasy after the apostles when the Bible says there is always a faithful remnant of the church which is the bride of Christ that the gates of hell shall not prevail against.

@GoWithJordan_ @Grownded @ThoughtfulSaint Acts 2:38 is. So is Matthew 28:19, from Jesus Himself: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

@Grownded @JohnnyH5000 @ThoughtfulSaint John 3 isnt about baptism.

We should remind ourselves daily of the gospel. The grace of our God is so undeserved. Wretched man that I am! Who will save me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!

@ThoughtfulSaint @GoWithJordan_ 37 ...they were pricked in their heart, and said unto...the apostles, ...what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" Acts 2:37-38

@GoWithJordan_ If I want to be saved what should I do?

@ColtonBruc3 ...“Since man had fallen he could not merit anything of himself.” (Alma 22:14.) “There can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.” (Alma 34:12)..." #p73" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1…

@ColtonBruc3 President Oaks has also said: "After all our obedience and good works, we cannot be saved from the effect of our sins without the grace extended by the atonement of Jesus Christ. ...salvation does not come by keeping the commandments alone...Man cannot earn his own salvation."

Calvinist vs Mormon Whose position is more biblical in this video?

@ryanharvey @ITalkOfChrist If the Church is of God, and God rewards with better than we give, tithing is a benefit for rich and poor alike. Without belief in those two things, I understand why someone would feel differently. I do believe it's universally good to tithe. But everyone is free to choose.

@JohnnyH5000 @ITalkOfChrist That is her choice and her opinion. This reeks of property doctrine, which I reject, but I wouldn’t deny her the right to proceed as she feels inspired. Others will feel differently. It’s personal.

PSA: Don't tithe on only your "increase." It's a bugaboo of mine when people say the Lord defined tithing as "10% of your increase." If you look in D&C 119, you'll find that word is never used: "Those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually." Not increase. This may seem pedantic, but it's actually not. When people incorrectly read "increase" into the text, it's easy to say "My checking account looks the same this month as it did last month. No increase, no tithing." "Interest" is less inclined to that interpretation and gives Church leadership more room to define tithing in a way that works for our time and circumstances. And their guidance has changed over time. For example, in the early days of the Restoration, the annual tithing was a sort of "wealth tax" equal to 1/10th of an assumed rate of inflation on your net worth. If the assumed inflation rate was 3%, you would pay 0.3% of your net worth in tithing at the end of the year. In that sense, it was truly an "increase" interpretation of "interest" at that time. But in today's less agrarian conomy, Church leaders have given us a new standard: "Tithing is the donation of one-tenth of one’s income to God’s Church (see Doctrine and Covenants 119:3–4; interest is understood to mean income). All members who have income should pay tithing" (34.3.1). That definition still leaves a lot of wiggle room about what classifies as your "income." Net v gross? Tithe on retirement contributions now? Later? Or both? What about scholarships and grants? House sale? Faithful Saints do the math on "income" differently, and that's okay. But it's disingenuous of us to pretend an "increase" approach is kosher today. Don't be stingy with the Lord. Don't label everything "corban." However you define your "income," pay an honest tithe on that income and watch the windows of heaven open in your life. It's worth it. I promise.

@ryanharvey @ITalkOfChrist We would be wrong to deny people the blessings of paying tithing by discouraging them, especially those in need. God has promised to open the windows of heaven and bless faithful tithe prayers abundantly. The question is whether we believe Him. #p18" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-…

@ITalkOfChrist To ask a person to tithe when they wouldn’t even have the remaining surplus to feed and house their family is gross to me. I don’t believe the Lord wouldn’t want that scenario.

@stackerco Like many others who have commented on this situation, I thought that Mormon Stories was a faithful LDS channel when I first came across it. The logo and the name gave that impression. It was confusing to watch their videos, til I understood what his angle really was.

You are a moron if you think Mormon Stories in any way shape or form is associated with the LDS church. Especially today as the church has distanced itself from being called “Mormon” A desperate Scientology like move to silence its critics.

@DataRepublican @Manhattva @UtahCollegeReps @rileybeesley @UVU Isn't political violence a symptom of contempt and hatred? Seems like a correct take. Now, if the point was that Charlie was responsible for the contempt, and violence against him was a natural consequence, that would be a different story.

@UtahCollegeReps @rileybeesley @UVU I've returned from vacation and been digging all day. Yes. Yes, they do. Here's just one quote I found: "Political violence is not the illness. It's just another of many symptoms. The real illness is the contempt"

Jason Chaffetz is absolutely correct here. @UVU should be ashamed of themselves.

@NYerinLV @ThoughtfulSaint God is perfect and so are His words in their pure form. Believing the Bible is either perfect or false would have greatly harmed my faith. In my own study, I encountered error. Exodus 32:14 says God "repented of the evil" He had planned. But God has no evil in Him (Numbers 23:19)

And yet he spends an inordinate amount of time trying to convince people of it's errors, of which there are none. This is like saying the sky is red, but it's okay because it's beautiful. Jacob does not have superior knowledge to the thousands of scholars before him, some of the holiest men to ever walk the earth. And he is truly putting his own soul at risk spreading this, and lies about the Trinity. And potentially other souls I might add.

People love to do theology right up until theirs breaks down and then it’s “human reason can’t explain ….”

@Jake_7777_ @HarkHugh @ThoughtfulSaint @Lovemyproxy When the canon was formed, did those at the council of Rome claim that they had received authority from God to do that, or that God gave the list of books by revelation?

@HarkHugh @ThoughtfulSaint @Lovemyproxy You won’t find anyone called by God to be a prophet whose words aren’t canonized. You won’t find any major man of God who God doesn’t qualify for their ministry and become yielded to Him.

One of the most insane claims ever made in the world of religion is that the Bible is inerrant. And I say this as someone who loves the Bible and believes it is scripture and reliable for doctrine and understanding the mind and will of God. But the Bible is a collection of books. No where does the Bible define what books belong in the Bible (hence a fallible canon) and nor do any of the books in it claim inerrancy.

@NYerinLV @ThoughtfulSaint Latter-Day Saints love and revere the Bible. Jacob has repeatedly affirmed the reliability of the Bible, but that is not the same as it being infallible. That distinction is important.

@ThoughtfulSaint I truly can't imagine using my life to try and convince the masses that the Bible, of ALL things, is unreliable. What a lose lose.

@ATrueMillennial Interestingly, the 2004 PMG said it is "more important" rather than "also important"

@ATrueMillennial This line from Preach My Gospel has always stuck out to me: "Learning from a good teacher is important, but it is also important for you to have meaningful learning experiences from your own study of the scriptures."

@HarfadYek @Lets_Talk_HC I think it's very valuable as it relates to priesthood authority. In any case, I wish you well in your continued quest for more faith and truth.

@JohnnyH5000 @Lets_Talk_HC Irrelevant and meaningless comment. Modern LDS revelation affirms the validity of the Biblical Canon (D&C 42:12). That settles it as far as the LDS are concerned. It makes the question of how the Protestants were able to figure out the right books meaningless and irrelevant.

Protestants insisting that the “church” simply “recognized” the canon instead of choosing which books were authoritative is the biggest and dumbest hand-wave of the millennium. God never revealed your 66-book canon. Tradition gave it to you.

Agreed: scripture comes through prophets under God's inspiration, and interpretations are invalid unless they align with God's. Individuals don't "decide" scripture's meaning, and only those authorized by God (His prophets and apostles) can adjudicate what is scripture. As you noted: Jesus had authority to say what is scripture, as did Peter (who got his authority from Jesus). The Christian councils weren't given this authority, faithful or wise as they might have been. So I love the Bible, but the choice of Biblical books passed down through tradition isn't an infallible or exhaustive list of scripture, and the creeds are not authoritative doctrine. God still speaks through prophets today, as He has before!

@JohnnyH5000 @Lets_Talk_HC |~• 𝟮 𝗣𝗲𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝟭: |~• 𝟮𝟬 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 𝟮𝟭 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. |~•

@ContraHeresy @Lets_Talk_HC No, only God or servants He authorizes to do so can tell us what is scripture. God mostly speaks through prophets. We need to know who is a true prophet, if any. How do you try to find out what is and isn't from God? How confident can we be in our conclusions?

@JohnnyH5000 @Lets_Talk_HC So its you who received the revelation that the Song of Solomon is uninspired? color me skeptical. More importantly, why does your church still print bibles with the Song of Solomon in there???

@HarfadYek @Lets_Talk_HC I believe the Bible is the word of God. My reasons are not that the Bible claims to be true, is largely self-consistent, or was agreed upon by early Christian church councils. I believe because studying it, testing its claims, and asking God (best of these) have all affirmed it.

@JohnnyH5000 @Lets_Talk_HC Jesus accepted the Old Testament canon (as recognized by the Jews at the time) as divinely inspired scripture. How many “books” it had at the time is beside the point. See my previous reply: x.com/i/status/20245…