RationallyDense

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RationallyDense

RationallyDense

@RationallyDense

Just here to follow people who aren't on 🐘 and annoy terfs. (they/them) 🐈

Katılım Şubat 2023
145 Takip Edilen132 Takipçiler
RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@TanningChatumm @jdcmedlock @questionableway The Nichomachean Ethics long predates Kant and doesn't require gods. I'm being a bit facetious, but I don't like the categorical imperative because there are infinitely many maxims that encompass a particular action, many of which the CI endorses or rejects.
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TanningChatum
TanningChatum@TanningChatumm·
@RationallyDense @jdcmedlock @questionableway Kant made it possible to imagine morals without respect to resorting to a God. Imperfect, as we all are but silly? I would think someone with rational knowledge their name would not have such a simple opinion.
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florence 🦐🪻
florence 🦐🪻@morallawwithin·
There’s a green button and a purple button. The purple button does nothing. The green button just kills you. It does nothing else. There’s literally no reason to press the green button. Which do you press?
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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@jdcmedlock Reaching 50% is easier than reaching 100%, yes. But the private cost in case of a coordination failure makes coordinating around blue a lot harder.
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James Medlock
James Medlock@jdcmedlock·
If you want to avoid needless death, you have two options to coordinate around. Blue has a 50% threshold and red has a 100% threshold. Only one of these is actually feasible…
delaniac 🌹🌱@ChadNotChud

every time this goes around I’m honestly flabbergasted by this justification for picking “red” everyone won’t do that. like that’s just an empirical fact. moreover the fact that there’s discourse about it should immediately prove that to you. many, many people will choose blue

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TanningChatum
TanningChatum@TanningChatumm·
@jdcmedlock @questionableway If more people press red then we are lost. As Kant would say, imagine living in a society of red. Doesn’t work. Might as well die off as a species because we aren’t worth the time. Dead end.
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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@TheNadohs @LumbyGoblin @jdcmedlock I don't think the answer changes if you flip it by having everyone start in the blender. I'm climbing out of the blender. I'm doing everything I can to pull people out.
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James Edwards 🦖🦕
James Edwards 🦖🦕@TheNadohs·
@LumbyGoblin @jdcmedlock Imo this example has another normative component smuggled in. Step in or do nothing vs press red or blue. With the red button, you must take an action which contributes to activation of the lethal mechanism, in the blender case, you need only refain from action to ensure survival
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Nicholas
Nicholas@timewalkcapital·
For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would rationally press blue. By pressing blue, you have essentially a 0% chance of altering the net outcome (unless you are the deciding single vote it won't matter). But you have some 50+% chance of saving your own life by pressing red. Even if you value your life on par with a stranger's, red is the rational choice.
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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@dystopiabreaker I'm a two boxer because I don't believe in magic and a red presser because I like being alive.
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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@CMcgoobs @biggestjoel @G0ffThew @EthicalHype That's how countless coordination problems go in real life. We could legitimately all be better if we reduced carbon emissions, but alternatives are only taking off in places where incentives are such that it is in peoples' individual interest to do so.
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sboogcMoohCoohC
sboogcMoohCoohC@CMcgoobs·
@biggestjoel @G0ffThew @EthicalHype Then if you do agree that blue has the best outcome why support red at all? Is it just pessimism of humanity? Because I’d rather vote blue believing that enough people will make the same choice over supporting the worse outcome and killing hundreds of millions out of doubting us.
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Geoff Thew
Geoff Thew@G0ffThew·
The calculus to press red is, to put it kindly, short-sighted idiot math. It begins and ends with “what input gives me the best odds of living” with no regard for what the world you’d be living in - where everyone you can trust is dead and everyone else knows it - would look like
Tim Urban@waitbutwhy

Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who pressed the red button survive. Which button would you press?

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M Number
M Number@max27183141·
@biggestjoel @CMcgoobs @G0ffThew @EthicalHype Are they safe though? if red wins people now live in a world of mourning and social unrest where people argue if their fallen families had it coming or not before trudging back to broken homes. a world where the people now alive are unwilling to risk their lives for each other
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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@G0ffThew @biggestjoel @EthicalHype Why would you hold out if your friend is holding out? I would treat it the same way as if my friend was about to kill themself: it would make me sad and I would try to stop them. I wouldn't join them.
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Geoff Thew
Geoff Thew@G0ffThew·
@biggestjoel @EthicalHype With a week to prepare society blue pressers are guaranteed majority. All it takes is one guy’s mom holding out, then he holds out, then all his friends hold out; Cascade effect. Any amount of communication pushes prisoner’s dilemma type scenarios toward cooperative outcomes.
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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@G0ffThew @biggestjoel If blue is the majority they survive regardless. If red is the majority, they die regardless. Me pushing the blue button has a negligible impact on their chance of survival. Unless the vote appears close, I'm hitting that red button.
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Geoff Thew
Geoff Thew@G0ffThew·
@biggestjoel The real scenario forces you to consider the consequences much more deeply than the internet question and ask yourself “do I know, for 100% certain, that my mom, my hippy aunt, my innocent 5 year old nephew, will all hit red?” And if the answer is no, you just hit blue and hope.
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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@Nyct0phil3_x I mean, I do have loved ones who are very small children and therefore very unreliable. I think that's basically where the split is. Do we think everyone involved is a vaguely rational person who can reliably understand "red = no death"?
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𝕷𝖆𝖉𝖞 𝕬 🦇
𝕷𝖆𝖉𝖞 𝕬 🦇@Nyct0phil3_x·
Its also funny to me how people are using the "what about your loved ones?!" argument, as if its a real concern their spouse would choose the wrong one, because it reminds me a lot of people don't debate topics like this with their husband for the love of the game 💀
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taoki
taoki@justalexoki·
@redtachyon that's basically what Jesus did
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taoki
taoki@justalexoki·
i've changed my mind actually. i'm back on blue. because everyone will not just! and i should do what i can to save the ones who do not understand the game
taoki tweet media
Tim Urban@waitbutwhy

Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who pressed the red button survive. Which button would you press?

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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@MusicVersa @ArthurCDent That's because "murder" is by definition an illegitimate killing. Society recognizes a lot of killings are legitimate and so people obviously are going to argue about which killings are legitimate.
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Versa
Versa@MusicVersa·
@ArthurCDent "Don't do murder" is like the most basic moral tenet. That so many people can't even get this right anymore is deeply disturbing.
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Arthur Dent
Arthur Dent@ArthurCDent·
I’ve said many times I’d ban private health insurance if I were King. Universal public coverage is better IMO. But in 2025 not-for-profit funds paid out just 2.3% more of premiums than for-profit funds in AUS. 2.3%. Recalibrate your dumb meme, and don’t rationalise murder.
Secular Talk ([email protected])@KyleKulinski

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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@TheLastNeocon @WashedPolicy @KelseyTuoc How democratic is the US? Strategic voting is widely recommended because the FPTP system enshrines the two incumbent parties. Corporations have a lot of power over peoples' lives but are subject to little democratic accountability. This is a recipe for disaster.
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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@TheLastNeocon @WashedPolicy @KelseyTuoc I think part of the problem is that as a system persists, elites develop strategies to maintain their power and advantage within that system which makes it less responsive to popular demands. (e.g. shifting power to the private sector)
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Kelsey Piper
Kelsey Piper@KelseyTuoc·
Piker's views on theft are bad, but they really do pale in comparison to his views on murder: that the important thing about Brian Thompson's murder is that healthcare CEOs are 'engaging in a tremendous amount of social murder' due to 'the structural violence of 'poverty'
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RationallyDense
RationallyDense@RationallyDense·
@Otto_H_Abelard @KelseyTuoc Your point stands, but it's a misconception that what the Nazis did was legal under contemporaneous German law. That's why prosecution of many participants in the Holocaust was done under normal German criminal law.
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Otto Abelard 🇵🇸
Otto Abelard 🇵🇸@Otto_H_Abelard·
@KelseyTuoc Firstly, very directly upstream. Also, if you take this logic to its extreme, why would it not apply to people in positions of power in Nazi Germany? Everything they did was also legal.
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Daniel Friedman
Daniel Friedman@DanFriedman81·
Israel has kept peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan for decades. Israel has never attacked anyone who did not attack it first. When Israel pulled out of Gaza and gave it completely to Palestinian rule, they elected Hamas. Another October 7 is not tolerable. Any final status discussions we have from here on out do not involve Israelis and Palestinians negotiating as equal partners, but as the winners and losers of a major war. A Palestinian state will have to be like Germany or Japan after WW2.
Adam Johnson@adamjohnsonCHI

This is the rub with all “2 state solution” bromides from high status liberals: you ask them to define a “Palestinian state” and even their most blue sky vision is a completely humiliated bantustan occupied by foreign troops. No such comparable demands ofc are ever made of Israel

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Keşfet

@TanningChatumm @jdcmedlock @questionableway @morallawwithin @TheNadohs @LumbyGoblin @timewalkcapital @dystopiabreaker