Timothy

Before: Inconsistent lifting Under eating Incline treadmill walking After: @SS_strength NLP Calorie surplus No cardio (I know my legs look small, but I swear I’m squatting 🤣 I’ve added 65lbs to my squat)

@jonathanplumb We can agree to disagree. 🤙

@TimReeves_ Those are all in the Bible. 🤡

I’ve never… read the Book of Mormon. been to a Mormon church. read a book about Mormonism. But… I occasionally house sit for my Mormon neighbors. Their living room wall has 3 statements of faith. None align with the statements of faith my Christian Church holds.

@TableTopLiberty @_Not_JamesBond_ You would say “He’s the second person of the Trinity, the one born in Bethlehem”?

@TimReeves_ @_Not_JamesBond_ Its not that we define him differently. There are some things we believe differently about Him, but its the same that came to Earth to save us. You take the differences and say its an entirely different Jesus, but its the one that was born in Bethlehem etc.

@OshawottEpic @_Not_JamesBond_ Our (Protestant) definition is “The son of God, the second person of the Trinity, who suffered and died for our sins, then resurrected after 3 days.” Is that yours?

@TimReeves_ @_Not_JamesBond_ If you're definition isn't "The son of God, who suffered and died for our sins, then resurrected after 3 days" then sure, we define Jesus differently

@lhawkes @_Not_JamesBond_ The definition is His nature determines only matters if it aligns with reality. If it doesn’t align with reality, then you’re talking about someone who doesn’t exist.

@TimReeves_ @_Not_JamesBond_ Whether He is consubstantial with the Father and the Holy Spirit or of the same essence or rather one in purpose doesn't change His mortal purpose to overcome death and sin. That's still the same regardless of your definition of His nature.

Thanks for the comment FL. I think you’re touching on a good point here. There is only one Jesus and we (protestants) don’t believe your (Mormon) Jesus is it. When you say “He died for each of us” the “He” has a different meaning then when I say “He died for each of us.” We’re talking about 2 different “He’s” and we can’t both be right.

@TimReeves_ @_Not_JamesBond_ Sounds like a you problem. Why do you so called “Christians”believe you’re entitled to pigeon hole Jesus Christ into whatever YOU believe Him to be? Do not realize how ridiculous this sounds?“Your Jesus is not MY Jesus.” He died for each & every one of us. There is only 1 Jesus!

@jonathanplumb Um. I’m not lying. This is what they had in their wall: amzn.to/4uU7Xci

@TimReeves_ Bro. There are literally no Latter-day Saint statements of faith that aren’t found in the Bible, moron. So either you’re a LIAR (my bet) or you don’t realize the actual religion of the house you were in. Yeah. Liar.

@Larsen1T @JeffN_Clasher Hear what? That the Mormon Jesus doesn’t exist?

@TimReeves_ @JeffN_Clasher Where do you people hear these things?

@AccountEnomics Not at all

@TimReeves_ This is called engagement farming

@SladeTheGuy @JeffN_Clasher Your doesn’t exist. Can’t die if you don’t exist.

@TimReeves_ @JeffN_Clasher Wait, ours never died? Was our Jesus immortal?

@NutlawPete @Luke_ehM @JeffN_Clasher Do you believe in one God? I’m pretty confident Mormons believe there are three separate divine beings. 3 Gods. Not one God.

@TimReeves_ @Luke_ehM @JeffN_Clasher Even your Nicene creed calls them three persons. You believe in one God in three persons. We believe in three persons in one God. That's a silly reason to hate us.

You do like your analogies. I respect that. Jesus taught in parables. You’re right that the two questions are deeply intertwined. Especially since the first commandment is: “You shall have no other gods before Me.” And Jesus echoes this when He says: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” This indicates to me that before God asks for anything from us, He first demands that we: 1. Know who He is 2. Direct our worship toward Him alone So if we want to talk about fruits of the faith, we have to talk about worship. Does the fruit of the faith produce worship of the correct God and Him alone? Because from a biblical perspective, the greatest commandment is not merely to be moral, loving, sincere, or even fruitful. The greatest commandment is to love and worship the Lord. That means the identity of God cannot be separated from the discussion. After all, a person can be sincere and still worship the wrong god. A person can be moral and still worship the wrong god. A person can even display admirable virtues and still worship the wrong god. The Old Testament is filled with examples of people who were religious, sincere, and zealous, yet God condemned them because they directed their worship incorrectly. So I’m gonna be honest with you, NJB, from my perspective, Mormonism does not produce the proper worship of the right God. Which is probably the most important fruit of all. I know this is a nuanced discussion, but are you tracking with what I’m saying?

I guess for me the two questions are deeply intertwined. Do we or can we truly know a person by their physical description? We can know what they look like, their size and shape, we can understand their biology, but it doesn’t truly tell us anything about the person in a meaningful way. To truly know a person we must talk to them or hear them speak or in some way understand how they think, what they value, what they want or what they need, how they interact with people and how they treat them. It is only in doing this that we can understand both the philosophy and the fruits of a person and their actions. At that point we can judge whether a person is someone who is worth listening to or following or bringing into our lives. You see caught up on the former description. I’m more interested in the fruits of the God you believe in vs the God I believe in. Pretend we had never seen a peach tree before and someone handed each of us a peach. We both look at it and agree that it is the same fruit and it is delicious. But we start to disagree about what the tree looks like. Ultimately it doesn’t change the peach, what it tastes like, looks like, feels like, or how the tree produces the fruit. I asked those questions because if we can agree on the fruits that we believe come from each of our Gods. If we can see that they are in fact the same fruit. Then perhaps knowing whose idea of what the tree physically looks like doesn’t much matter? I believe that what God wants from us and for us is the paramount question that defines His existence and the entire reason for being a God worth worshiping and following. If what He wants for us and from us is something we can agree on, then I think it’s safe to say it’s the same God even if we don’t agree on the vision we have of what precisely that God may look like

@ByuSome @Azazello1313 LOL

The gospel of Jesus Christ. You have to argue away and ignore so much of what Jesus and the New Testament says then. Have fun with that! "Don't worry, just go break the ten commandments! Doesn't matter! You were baptized and have thoughts that Jesus is real! You're saved! You're covered! It's all good! Steal away!"

@Seansimmans Correct. 🤙

@TimReeves_ Now I'm thinking of a soccer player who shows up at the Cowboys' AT&T Stadium. "I'm a football player," he says. "No, that's a soccer ball." "Well, I call it a football." "Maybe you do. But you're playing a wholly different game." "Agree to disagree."

@ByuSome @Azazello1313 It’s part of the Mormon gospel…

@Azazello1313 @TimReeves_ Works are part of the gospel. That's in the Bible. It's not an either-or.

Making excellent bench press progress. A few years ago I worked my way up to a (grinding) 250 single. I was… Under eating No recovering enough Taking big jumps in weight Not following the plan consistently Now I’m… I’m eating more (a lot more). Intentionally recovering. Only adding 2.5 per jump. Sticking to the plan every week. Today I hit a smooth 240 3x5 with no problem. Funny how that works.

I’m happy to respond to this. I feel like you’re truly engaging in a genuine way, and I appreciate that. But before I respond, I’d like to ask why we’re shifting the discussion from: “Who is God?” to “What kind of people does God want us to be?” Don’t get me wrong, they’re both important questions. But I would say one is more foundational. After all, how can we know what God wants from us if we don’t first know who God is? It seems to me that the first question logically precedes the second. For example, before I can properly obey someone, trust someone, or worship someone, I need to know who that person actually is. That’s why my original point wasn’t primarily about behavior. It was about identity. My claim wasn’t that Mormons and Christians have different moral standards. In many cases, we share very similar moral convictions. My claim was that we make fundamentally different claims about the identity and nature of God. So before we move on to discussing what God wants from us, I think it’s fair to first answer the question that started the conversation: Are we talking about the same God? Because if we’re describing God in fundamentally different ways, then that difference isn’t a side issue. It’s the foundation upon which every other discussion is built. Know what I mean?

I guess my question for you would be, what does God want for us? What does God want from us? I believe that God created us and loves us deeply and personally. I believe that God's commandments are instructions for how to find the most joy and peace and fulfillment in this life on earth. I believe that if an individual follows the teachings of Christ, not only will they find immense satisfaction throughout their lives through both the good times and the bad, but that they will also be a light that shines for the world to see so that others will see and desire the same for themselves so that they may find peace and joy in this life. I believe that God wants us to live with him forever after this life and I guess my next point is where I am curious what you believe and where perhaps our beliefs diverge. I believe that God in wanting us to live with him forever, will look at the intent of a persons heart, He will look for any way to justify a person to allow them to live with Him. So if a person abided their whole life by the same behaviors and principles taught by Jesus and throughout the bible but the person he thought of in his head was a little different than what he was really like, (he thought God was a woman, or was 5 people in one, or was an ethereal essence), I can't imagine that that misunderstanding alone would disqualify that person from God's presence. The point of God and His teachings, to me, are about teaching and spreading the message of Truth. What exactly heaven looks like, the exact definition of God's nature, the exact rubric used to judge people, all of that feels like stuff that would be nice to know but is ultimately not going to determine the joy and fulfillment a person can experience in this life. So again I ask, in your opinion, what does God want for us? What does God want from us?

@LDSeongdo @CynthiaCHeath They definitely do have them on their wall.

@TimReeves_ @CynthiaCHeath Uh, possibly, but very unlikely they have the articles of faith on their wall. This tells me you're lying or don't remember correctly.

@Jk20vM @CynthiaCHeath I’m good friends with my neighbors even though we disagree.

@TimReeves_ @CynthiaCHeath I really like that.I might order!But you will find 4 pictures of Jesus in my room,at least 2 in each of my kids’and big ones in our main living spaces.We love our church,we love Jesus and we try to love everyone like he did.I know we might disagree but we still make good friends

@Jk20vM @CynthiaCHeath You’re not the only one, I think Mountain top creations is gonna owe me some money for promoting their product so much 🤣

@PittrpatterDon @CynthiaCHeath We actually respectfully disagree on the nature of who God is. This is why we would say you don’t believe in Jesus because you believe in a different Jesus.

@TimReeves_ @CynthiaCHeath Okay, that's fair that you don't believe them. I don't believe the catechism. But I love and respect my faithful catholic friends and never would accuse them of not believing in Jesus. We simply , respectfully disagree on articles of faith.